Magus Coeruleus
Explorer
By the rules, can you use a ray spell to make a sneak attack? If so, do you only need to hit with a ranged touch attack or do you need to make a normal ranged attack if you want to do sneak attack damage?
sneak attack and ray spells
- Thread starter Magus Coeruleus
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the Jester
Legend
What they said.
Basically, if you roll to hit you can sneak attack or crit. There are a very few exceptions- maybe splash weapons?- but that's the basic rule of thumb.
Basically, if you roll to hit you can sneak attack or crit. There are a very few exceptions- maybe splash weapons?- but that's the basic rule of thumb.
Magus Coeruleus
Explorer
The sneak attack description in the rogue section doesn't really specify what kinds of attacks can and can't count as sneak attacks, which could mean that it's intended to work with anything. Does anyone know of anything that more explicitly allows this?
I'm concerned about touch attacks letting you get sneak attack damage. Isn't the point of a touch attack that you don't need to hit a specific (i.e. vulnerable) part of the creature, but just to hit it at all for the spell to work? (For instance, you can hit someone right on the shield and the spell still works.) And isn't the point of a sneak attack that you strike "a vital spot" with "deadly accuracy" (PHB 30)? These seem somewhat incompatible. I would think that you'd need to make a normal melee or ranged attack if you wanted to target a vital spot for sneak attack damage, just as you need to do if you want to get unarmed strike damage when attacking with a touch range spell. This is different from critical hits (which you can definitely be done with a touch attack) because a critical hit is based not on special circumstances like a sneak attack is, but on a random chance of hitting a vital spot.
I'm concerned about touch attacks letting you get sneak attack damage. Isn't the point of a touch attack that you don't need to hit a specific (i.e. vulnerable) part of the creature, but just to hit it at all for the spell to work? (For instance, you can hit someone right on the shield and the spell still works.) And isn't the point of a sneak attack that you strike "a vital spot" with "deadly accuracy" (PHB 30)? These seem somewhat incompatible. I would think that you'd need to make a normal melee or ranged attack if you wanted to target a vital spot for sneak attack damage, just as you need to do if you want to get unarmed strike damage when attacking with a touch range spell. This is different from critical hits (which you can definitely be done with a touch attack) because a critical hit is based not on special circumstances like a sneak attack is, but on a random chance of hitting a vital spot.
The Souljourner
First Post
By the rules it works, but of course because it's a ranged attack, you can only add sneak attack damage when the target is denied his dex bonus... and that's not that often, as my OotBI character is finding out. Still, when he can.. look out! 
-The Souljourner
-The Souljourner
Magus Coeruleus
Explorer
Spatula: Ah, there it is, thanks! I knew I read this stuff somewhere but didn't remember where.
Souljourner: Hm, good point about the ranged touch attack. I was thinking about the abuse potential of using a Wand of Scorching Ray from a flanking position, but I guess that because it involves a ranged touch attack, it doesn't matter that you're 5' away any more than it would if you fired a bow from 5' away. Either way, because it's ranged, you can't sneak attack just for flanking. If you wanted to get really nasty, you'd use a Wand of Shocking Grasp, because that's a melee touch attack, so flanking is enough. Am I getting that right? Also, in that case, would you need both hands, one for the Wand and one to touch? Or could you actually use the Wand itself for the the touch attack?
Thanks, everyone!
Souljourner: Hm, good point about the ranged touch attack. I was thinking about the abuse potential of using a Wand of Scorching Ray from a flanking position, but I guess that because it involves a ranged touch attack, it doesn't matter that you're 5' away any more than it would if you fired a bow from 5' away. Either way, because it's ranged, you can't sneak attack just for flanking. If you wanted to get really nasty, you'd use a Wand of Shocking Grasp, because that's a melee touch attack, so flanking is enough. Am I getting that right? Also, in that case, would you need both hands, one for the Wand and one to touch? Or could you actually use the Wand itself for the the touch attack?
Thanks, everyone!
Andion Isurand
First Post
I'm pretty sure that one can't make a ranged sneak attack against a target that is more then 30 ft. away.
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
That's exactly right.
Interestingly, there's no such restriction on melee attacks. A Kraken Rogue can Sneak Attack with a tentacle from a hundred feet away, for instance.
Now, most rogues don't have hundred-foot tentacles. However, for the Arcane Trickster, there's Spectral Hand.
Spectral Hand delivers touch spells... specifically as a melee touch attack. Since it's not a ranged attack, it's not subject to the 30 foot sneak attack limit... so you can sneak attack with a Spectral Hand Shocking Grasp from 100 ft + 10 ft per caster level away...
-Hyp.
