Stat requirements

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Thanks for answering!

I'll answer slightly out of order.

Which is the exact opposite of what the FAQ states.

Egads! I disagree with the FAQ! Say it ain't so!

But what rules tell you that the spell slots no longer exist?

Similar to spells within an Antimagic Field, they may merely be surpressed.

I could see that being a reasonable way to rule it.

This is a new spell slot. One the Sorcerer never had before and one for which he has never rested.

Ok - he doesn't get the new slot until he rests.

Let's say, instead, a sorceror owns a +2 Charisma headband, which qualifies him for an additional 3rd-level slot.

He goes to town, and this time finds a seller of Headbands of Intellectual Awesomeness (+2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom). In the shop, takes off his old headband, and over the course of the next 20 seconds or so holds up the three different HoIA models to see how they look in the mirror. He picks the blue one, puts it on, pays for his purchase, and leaves the store.

Can he still cast one extra fireball today?

which indicates that the spell stays until the Wizard casts it or until a wipe spell event that is clearly called out in the rules happens. Losing your magic item or having it temporarily dispelled is not necessarily such an event.

Not necessarily an event - it certainly isn't called out specifically - but the rules here are open-ended. They reference any number of possible instances that could cause a spellcaster to lose a prepared spell (like, say, a spellthief's attack).

In regards to Resurrection, there's also the following in Raise Dead: "A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level."

Clearly, this is not called out specifically in that section of rules. It is, however, a case of specifically calling out such a situation, which would lend credence to your side.

However, we still go back to the initial issue that started all of this. When you ask what someone's Intelligence (or Strength, etc.) score is, there is *one* answer. The answer is not "It's 17, but really 15." A person with a 15 Intelligence does not gain any 3rd-level bonus spells. If you're Intelligence is 15, you don't have any 3rd-level bonus spells.

 

[Twowolves]

Well, Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't do damage or drain. It inflicts a Strength penalty.

Wow, and that's not semantics?

 

[IanB]

Wow, and that's not semantics?

It isn't semantics, they operate very differently. A penalty in D&D is the same thing as a negative bonus. If it works one way for a bonus, it must work the same way for a penalty. Because a strength penalty can remove your access to a feat, a strength bonus must qualify you for access in the same way.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Wow, and that's not semantics?

No. It is an extremely important distinction.

 

[KarinsDad]

Let's say, instead, a sorceror owns a +2 Charisma headband, which qualifies him for an additional 3rd-level slot.

He goes to town, and this time finds a seller of Headbands of Intellectual Awesomeness (+2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom). In the shop, takes off his old headband, and over the course of the next 20 seconds or so holds up the three different HoIA models to see how they look in the mirror. He picks the blue one, puts it on, pays for his purchase, and leaves the store.

Can he still cast one extra fireball today?

Obviously, you know the answer to this. DM call.

I liked your Headband of Intellectual Awesomeness, but thought it should be called Headband of Mental Awesomeness (it's not just your mother's intellect/intelligence anymore).

Earlier today, I thought of a similar example:

You have your Headband of Intelligence on.

You cast Fox's Cunning on yourself.

You take off the Headband.

However, we still go back to the initial issue that started all of this. When you ask what someone's Intelligence (or Strength, etc.) score is, there is *one* answer. The answer is not "It's 17, but really 15." A person with a 15 Intelligence does not gain any 3rd-level bonus spells. If you're Intelligence is 15, you don't have any 3rd-level bonus spells.

Precisely.

But, it is interesting that in other areas of the rules, WotC differentiated the base ability (e.g. BAB, skill ranks) from the totals. I do not think they purposely did not do it here, I think it just never came up as important.

For example, how many different ways are there to boost an ability score that you have to consider stacking rules for it? You get a few size modifiers, but most of them are enhancement and do not stack. There are a lot of ways to stack to hit total, skill total, and saving throws.

 

[IanB]

But, it is interesting that in other areas of the rules, WotC differentiated the base ability (e.g. BAB, skill ranks) from the totals. I do not think they purposely did not do it here, I think it just never came up as important.

For example, how many different ways are there to boost an ability score that you have to consider stacking rules for it? You get a few size modifiers, but most of them are enhancement and do not stack. There are a lot of ways to stack to hit total, skill total, and saving throws.

Ah, but it does match exactly how they've done other enhancement bonuses, at least to static numbers. An enhancement bonus to natural armor means your natural armor bonus is higher. An enhancement bonus to armor means your armor bonus is higher. It would seem, then, that an enhancement bonus to your strength means your strength is higher.

An enhancement bonus on attack rolls does seem to function differently, but I think that is because it is modfying a roll rather than a static number.

 

[KarinsDad]

Ah, but it does match exactly how they've done other enhancement bonuses. An enhancement bonus to natural armor means your natural armor bonus is higher. An enhancement bonus to armor means your armor bonus is higher. It would seem, then, that an enhancement bonus to your strength means your strength is higher.

And a luck bonus to a saving throw means that your saving throw is higher.

I don't see a big difference here. Do you?

 

[IanB]

And a luck bonus to a saving throw means that your saving throw is higher.

I don't see a big difference here. Do you?

I do. One modifies a roll, one modifies a static attribute of some sort (armor bonus, strength.) The game seems to handle those differently, from what I can tell.

 

[Twowolves]

No. It is an extremely important distinction.

Enlighten me as to exaclty how it's "extremely" important? It's a temporary magical effect, inflicting a temporary penalty. If there were feats that required a minimum score, I wouldn't let these spells qualify a character for them in this case either.

 

[IanB]

Enlighten me as to exaclty how it's "extremely" important? It's a temporary magical effect, inflicting a temporary penalty. If there were feats that required a minimum score, I wouldn't let these spells qualify a character for them in this case either.

Do you believe that ray of enfeeblement can stop a character from qualifying for Power Attack?