Thanks, guys, you've ruined Haste for the rest of us.

[Shalewind]

I also like Sean Reynolds argument that none of these metamagic feats should actually be feats. They should be class abilities for Wizards. The cost of using a metamagic is already factored into the ability, i.e. you're already giving up a 6th level slot to cast a Maximized Fireball so why make the wizard spend a feat in order to have the ability to do it. I think that makes perfect sense.

Where did he say this? I've been looking for it for a while. Thanks.

 

[Lousifer]

Actually, I think Haste would be fine if it had a 1-round startup time. Not a full-round cast, but have it take until your next action to take full effect.

 

[SimonMoon5]

Re: Re: I Come in Peace!

The funny part is, if I saw that spell in a 3rd party splatbook, I'd instinctively call it broken.

Check out Magic of Rokugan. The spell "Hurried Steps" is just like that: a personal spell that gives you an extra partial action each turn that can only be used for casting spells. However, since it's not as powerful as Haste, it is only a 2nd level spell. And, yes, it's a sor/wiz spell, as well as a shugenja spell.

 

[Quinn]

Where did he say this? I've been looking for it for a while. Thanks.

In the Misc. section on Reynolds' website, he has articles where he gives his opinion of various feats, spells, classes, etc.

The one in particular that I mentioned is at http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/PH_opinions_feats.html

 

[Shalewind]

Thanks Quinn, I must have missed it when I was browsing his site. I agree, as well. I think they should be earned as class abilites.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Re: I Come in Peace!

Check out Magic of Rokugan. The spell "Hurried Steps" is just like that: a personal spell that gives you an extra partial action each turn that can only be used for casting spells. However, since it's not as powerful as Haste, it is only a 2nd level spell. And, yes, it's a sor/wiz spell, as well as a shugenja spell.

At second level, that spell is way too good. Compare it to arcane lock, invisibility, knock and see invisibility. Why wouldn't I take "hurried steps"? I can't think of a reason, so it is too much for a second level spell.

 

[LokiDR]

I just read schism. You get an extra partial action for purely mental tasks only, so it it only works for a silent still spells, which could be cool in itself. Also, schism applies an extra cost of 2 power points/power while schism is running. I don't know how much of a cost that is, but it still is an extra cost.

No AC benefit. No use to fighters. Range personal. And this is a third level power. That seems to make haste seem powerful to me, if a psionic power is supposed to be roughly balance to spell of the same level. If I was going to convert schism for wizards, I would keep the "purely mental" restriction, but make it a 2nd or 1st level spell.

In Relics and Rituals, there is a very high level spell called "two minds". This stacks with haste and allows you split control of your body. So, while one mind is casting (using arms/torso) the second mind is walking. Then they switch in the same round, hence 2 spells. If it didn't stack with haste, this also would an interesting 3rd or 4th level replacement for haste.

 

[Enkhidu]

I just read schism. You get an extra partial action for purely mental tasks only, so it it only works for a silent still spells, which could be cool in itself. Also, schism applies an extra cost of 2 power points/power while schism is running. I don't know how much of a cost that is, but it still is an extra cost.

No AC benefit. No use to fighters. Range personal. And this is a third level power. That seems to make haste seem powerful to me, if a psionic power is supposed to be roughly balance to spell of the same level. If I was going to convert schism for wizards, I would keep the "purely mental" restriction, but make it a 2nd or 1st level spell.

Yeah, Schism as written wouldn't convert over exactly due to differences in psionics and magic (mostly because of the power point system vs spell slots). It does, however, have the feel right - something specifically designed to allow an extra spell per round.

 

[MissWashuu]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not but lets bring up a few points here shall we?

1.) a Wizard is *not* a fighter. If you want to deal the damage of a fighet, be a fighter. if your playing a wizard resign yourself to tactic's and strategy. Those are strengths that fighters can claim.

2.) You are part of a *party*. Any really *good* DM will pose challanges to you so that your thought processes move from "Look at what I can do" to "How can I help the party survive?"

3.) What? you don't have HASTE??? How many players who had mages heard this over and over again? How dare they not take haste as a 3rd level spell? Does it matter that the spell might not fit the dmages "flavor" that the player was trying to create? Don't get me started on sorcerer. I mean they have a limited spell selection and they are almost *required* by most tables to have haste.


What does this mean? It means that wizards will be the party's power but being it's support, it's brain. Fighters will be the party's power by being it's muscle, it's brawn.
Is this bad? Not necessairly, it does however, mean an sdjustment in your strategies and techniques. The wizard who would hog all the glory before the fighter got to the front line, is now gone (or at least regulated). The fighter may need to work a bit harter to protect the spell caster because that extra attack each round is *mighty nice*. Working as a team, what a concept.....


From one who normally plays Bard's and Rogues.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree. I would've said drop Quicken Spell down to only +2 level, but then it would negate the utility of Empower Spell.

No, not really. Empower is very efficient in a way that Quicken is not, because Quicken chews through high level spell slots and low level spell slots at the same time.

If you want to maximize damage during a single round or two of combat, go with Quicken.

If you want to maximaize damage over the course of several rounds, go with Empower.