D&D Movie/TV The D&D versions of Theros, Ravnica, and Arcvios should be seperate from the MtG versions.

I have to correct something, Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica does meantion Planeswalkers, Jace Beleren specifically as the Guildpact, and does mention he leaves Ravnica now and then, as well as meeting other Planeswalkers, but Witchlight and E: RftLW also meantions Ellewick Tumblestrum and Vi as Planeswalkers respectively, so that doesn't mean much. Also Boros is said to have Devas who can cast Planeshift.

But Mythic Odyssey's of Theros mentions its in the Material Plane and calls the Nyx and the Underworld Planes (I'm picturing something like Eberron & its Orrey Cosmology's situation in reguards to the great wheel absording it).

And of course Strixhaven goes even further such as mentioning the Feywild, making it the origin of the Owlin.

These setting being seperate from the train wreck that is MtG's story makes me feel better.
 

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But Mythic Odyssey's of Theros mentions its in the Material Plane and calls the Nyx and the Underworld Planes (I'm picturing something like Eberron & its Orrey Cosmology's situation in reguards to the great wheel absording it).

It's worth noting that there can be more than one Material Plane, especially if there are solar systems being separated by planar transition such as the Astral Sea.
 

dave2008

Legend
I try to embrace everything that can be made to make sense together, at least in broad strokes, even if I don't personally care for it. If there is an obvious disconnect where I can't make that reconciliation and have to choose, I choose the version I like the best.

For example, a lot of stuff in Planescape was presented as the "real truth" that those bumbling Prime sages misinterpreted or otherwise got wrong. I liked that idea, so that's how it is for me.

A second example. I accepted every update to the Ravenloft setting from the original module through 2e and the licensed 3e stuff, because to my mind all of that was additive to the original or provided a different context for previous events without changing them. WotC efforts in the setting since then changed aspects of the lore in ways that are harder to reconcile, but until VRGtR they just affected Strahd and Barovia so were easy to ignore. The last book rewrote the entire setting from the ground up, however, so I can't accept it as the same setting and resent that they are presenting it as such.

A third example. Third Edition changed a number of cosmological things in ways I didn't care for, but since the changes most strongly affected settings I have little investment in (Forgotten Realms and Eberron), they were easy to ignore so I could maintain my beloved 2e lore for the settings I did care about. Fourth edition changed the entire system, so I had to wall it off. Now, since the 4e World Axis is actually pretty cool as its own thing, I could appreciate it as such. I even added the Feywild and Shadowfell to my cosmology, as they filled some cosmological gaps and were useful in their own right without disrupting established lore all that much. When 5e did the same in 2014 I was quite pleased.

But in the last few years, and especially since Tasha's and their announcement that canon no longer matters, nearly fourty years of storytelling in D&D products has ended. I can't see it another way.
Thank you for the response. While I disagree with your interpretation of:
  • What constitutes irreconcilable changes
  • What lore / lore changes should matter
  • What lore / lore changes shouldn't matter
  • WotC's opinion on canon
I appreciate your passion for the material. I see for the most part you are like me and accept what you like and discard what you don't.
I do find it odd that you admit to discarding things you don't like and yet can't seem to do that with more recent 5e lore. But we all have our issues.

I would like to have a lore conversation with you (as I know you want to get off of 1D&D topics), but I find the lore you care about and lore I like tend to be different. I don't think we would get very far (and you seem to care more about "official" lore much more than me). If there are other topics your are interested I would be happy to start a thread so you could engage in less frustrating conversations!
 
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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
A few cross-references and Easter eggs do not a metaplot make.

Note that metaplot in an RPG has different implications than in a CCG. In a CCG, metaplot generates new content in the form of cards that reference the metaplot. This is a benefit for the player. But the action of playing the card game is not expected to impact the game world.

In an RPG, the actions of the players are expected to impact the game world (or, the local version of that world at their table). But, the metaplot is driven by characters the players don't control. Metaplot makes the major events of the setting about someone else's adventures that the players don't significantly interact with or change. That's... not great from an RPG perspective.
Well, Legend of the Five Rings was, well, legendary for having their tournament games affect the world. I agree its not super common in most CCGs though.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Thank you for the response. While I disagree with your interpretation of:
  • What constitutes irreconcilable changes
  • What lore / lore changes should matter
  • What lore / lore changes shouldn't matter
  • WotC's opinion on canon
I appreciate your passion for the material. I see for the most part you are like me and accept what you like and discard what you don't.
I do find it odd that you admit to discarding things you don't like and yet can't seem to do that with more recent 5e lore. But we all have our issues.

I would like to have a lore conversation with you (as I know you want to get off of 1D&D topics), but I find the lore you care about and lore I like tend to be different. I don't think we would get very far (and you seem to care more about "official" lore much more than me). If there are other topics your are interested I would be happy to start a thread so you could engage in less frustrating conversations!
I cared about the official lore because I could see it as a single continuous story until recently. Now that that's over I am making up my own lore. I have a setting I built for Level Up and my OSR games that I am currently revising that I'm actually very excited about. It's mostly standard fantasy, but it has a fair number of sci-fi, Barrier Peaks elements because I really enjoy the mash-up. I'm having a lot of fun working on it.
 

dave2008

Legend
I cared about the official lore because I could see it as a single continuous story until recently.
This is where we differ. For me it became discontinuous officially in 2e.

Ever since I have been treating "official" lore as stories and picking and choosing the bits and pieces I like and weaving them together. Though I treat even my idea of the lore as another story that could be wrong.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
This is where we differ. For me it became discontinuous officially in 2e.

Ever since I have been treating "official" lore as stories and picking and choosing the bits and pieces I like and weaving them together. Though I treat even my idea of the lore as another story that could be wrong.
2e tried very hard to weave all the settings together. They did a good enough job as far as I'm concerned.
 

Its all just loose 'multiverse' nonsense at this point. May as well be right out of the Dr Strange movie for all its coherence.

Yeah MOM was a disaster. It was fun at first, but over time it just became impossible to ignore all the plot holes, 90% of the important stuff happening off outside of story, the contradictions between the story shown on the box art, the cards, and the written story are huge, and then they leave the Multiverse a wretched mess and won't explain anything until May when a tiny 50 card set comes out and what appears to be a single day of story to explain everything.

This could have been the coolest story they ever did, and the story has its moments enough to hint at that, but instead its an even bigger turd then War of the Spark.

Multiverse stories don't have to be told as poorly as they are in Doctor Strange or this Story, Spiderman No Way Home proved that.
 


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