D&D 5E (2024) The Great Wizard Extinction.

[Scribe]

The Wizard theme (other than Bladesinger) just isn't cool. Sorcerers are bursting with innate magical energy that they struggle to control! Warlocks make a pact with a higher power! Wizards read books and study alot... yeah no thanks I do enough of that in real life.

Thing is, there is some appealing thematic space here. Study, research, discovery.

Wizards, the company, just didn't explore it, and 5e makes it safe, predictable, and boring.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They may get more spells but they don't get very many spells slots.

Rituals lean heavily towards exploration pillar.

You know the pillar most people neglect or don't care about.

I am sorry. But we do care. The wizard, the ranger and the rogue are the 3 classes that do better in exploration...
... those are the classes people deem underpowered...
... they are not. They are just not for those people.

 

[bedir than]

Its a very ENwoekd assumption. Elsewhere online its more at level ABC theses spells do XYZ.

I can only comment on what's here. If you want to point out DPR, please do.
But I'll still note that ignores the clear and explicit call in the rules that Rituals are a key part of Wizard as is the spellbook.

(1) as a DM nudge my encounters so that from time to time a wizard gets to shine, whatever their specialization

@SlyFlourish calls this Lightning Rods -- they're encounters set up to feature what the character is built to do. Have a cleric? Give them a horde of low level undead to turn once in a while? Have a fireball wizard? Put 10 minions in a small area. A tank should soak up the big damage dealers.

When a player builds a character they are telling the DM and party the types of things they are good at. They should be able to do that stuff!

 

[Zardnaar]

I can only comment on what's here. If you want to point out DPR, please do.
But I'll still note that ignores the clear and explicit call in the rules that Rituals are a key part of Wizard as is the spellbook.


@SlyFlourish calls this Lightning Rods -- they're encounters set up to feature what the character is built to do. Have a cleric? Give them a horde of low level undead to turn once in a while? Have a fireball wizard? Put 10 minions in a small area. A tank should soak up the big damage dealers.

When a player builds a character they are telling the DM and party the types of things they are good at. They should be able to do that stuff!

The rules don't exactly encourage newbies to get tge extra spells.

Its also kinda well known exploration is neglected. New ranger moved away from that leaning more into striker.

Notice even here at ENworld you don't see much discussion about exploration. Adventures don't tend to emphasize it much beyond dungeon exploration.

If you do post about it you'll probably get minimal responses l. It often overlaps with world building and no one cares about that.

 

[Mistwell]

High level games are 1% of games WotC numbers.

First no, it's more than 1% and we're not talking "highest" levels. Second, they WERE, years ago. But we kept playing my man. They started to support high level play better. Catch up!

That's higher than most games according to WotC, all games locally and most games here at ENworld it seems.

If you're going to call a class overrated, you cant exclude 40% of their levels because you personally don't play those levels and you read a poll years ago. PLUS those same polls found Wizards were played a lot, so which is it, are polls right and they're popular, or are polls wrong and they're not popular except the poll you used to determine that is wrong?

 

[M_Natas]

I've been playing D&D for two decades, 5e for half that time. I've played a lot of wizards and a lot of spellcasters in that time, to the point where I feel I have a good handle on mechanically how fun it is to "cast a spell."

The problem is that 5e wizards, especially 5e wizards under 2024 rules, don't really have much interesting to the class other than their spell list, but other spellcasters and their subclasses tend to have more identity than that. Even grouping clerics under domains rather than the wizard spell schools gives more unique character concepts.

WotC has failed to innovate with the wizard class and keep it fresh. For some reason or another, every time they get a good idea for caster gameplay, they end up giving it to a different caster, perhaps because of the perception that the wizard has nigh-limitless power and versatility so it doesn't "need" any more help.

WotC also wastes so much space on wizard subclasses. A Wizard is his spell list, so a good Design would lean into it.
First of all, increase the number of Spells and Buff out the spell list so that all schools of magic have similar amount and quality of spells and spells for all levels.
Than make make proficiency and expertise in schools of magic a prerequisite to access higher level spells of that school.
Boom, now you have one wizard subclass for 8 different kind of schools (pick an expertise and two proficiencies in schools of magic, get boni for that schools ...).
So only evocation-expert Wizards get fireball, for example.

And then make some class abilities of the current sub classes into spells that can be only accessed by the expert wizards, to keep uniqueness.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I’ve never seen many wizards, for two reasons:

1) they are perceived as being the choice of filthy power gamers;

2) they are perceived as being somewhat antisocial because they take so long to take their turns.

However, “what!? Does no one know [ritual spell]!?” Is something I have heard players lament on a fairly regular basis.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Its a common complaint here. I own a lot of the 5E adventures and exploration is minimal there.

Social pillar isn't neglected as much and its why I rate the charisma classes higher.

That’s because stuffing it full of combat encounters is the easiest way to write adventures.

But the default mode of D&D is creating you own adventures, not running other people’s. They are a time saver, but they will always be inferior.

 

[Horwath]

Wizards are generalist and while that is a good strength of the class it makes them a little bland.
That is why bladesingers are popular as it gives something else to wizard except generic spellcasting.

Wizard is the "swiss army knife" of the party, but no matter how many times that knife is useful, it will never be as cool as "Rambo knife" or as useful in that specific role.

Wizard subclasses should lean in more into the role, Evoker wizard should be THE best damage dealer in the party if spell slots are spent on damage spells, maybe 3x of barbarian damage. As barbarian can "tank" 3 or 4x attacks that a wizard can take.

Necromancer should have it's undead minion based on Summon undead spell.
I.E:
at 3rd level you gain Summon undead spell, spell slot you use is counted as one level higher for calculating Summon undead.
that is, basic 3rd level Summon undead can be casted by 2nd level slot.
Summon undead lasts for 24hrs and Concentration cannot be lost due to damage.
apply same benefit to Animate dead(but I would like to see this spell to go away, too much clutter on battlefield)

later add that Summon undead can be casted as Bonus action and without Conc, but it lasts only 1 minute.

 

[Zardnaar]

First no, it's more than 1% and we're not talking "highest" levels. Second, they WERE, years ago. But we kept playing my man. They started to support high level play better. Catch up!




If you're going to call a class overrated, you cant exclude 40% of their levels because you personally don't play those levels and you read a poll years ago. PLUS those same polls found Wizards were played a lot, so which is it, are polls right and they're popular, or are polls wrong and they're not popular except the poll you used to determine that is wrong?

False equivalent wizards can be popular and not see high level play. Game was 6 years old when that poll came out.

Additionally there's been interviews over the years about high level stiff selling poorly. High selling golden age items were mostly 1-8.

Even here with veteran older experienced players most aren't doing high level. They're mostly theory craft builds IRL even you should know that.
. I did say tgey start at C tier and end up S tier. They're comparatively bad to other primary spellcasters tier 1. Tier 2s the most important levels inmho.