Two-handed weapons -- nerfed, or am I missing something?

[icarussc]

What's the advantage of fighting with a big two-handed weapon? If I carry a longsword, I do 1d8 + Str mod + 1 if I wield it in two hands. If I carry a greatsword, I do 1d10 + Str mod. Whoa, a possible 1 point gain! Stand back, everyone! Plus, I can carry a shield around with my longsword and switch to one-handed if I need the extra defense.

What am I missing? What possible benefit could I get from a non-reach two handed weapon, especially something as iconic as the greatsword?

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Fighter power of 6[W] with longsword = 6d8+1 ~ 28 damage (or 7 to 49 damage)
Fighter power of 6[W] with greatsword= 6d10 ~ 33 damage (or 6 to 60 damage)

Also I believe some fighter abilities work strictly with two handed weapons, and some work with strictly one handed weapons.

 

[charlesatan]

What's the advantage of fighting with a big two-handed weapon? If I carry a longsword, I do 1d8 + Str mod + 1 if I wield it in two hands. If I carry a greatsword, I do 1d10 + Str mod. Whoa, a possible 1 point gain! Stand back, everyone! Plus, I can carry a shield around with my longsword and switch to one-handed if I need the extra defense.

What am I missing? What possible benefit could I get from a non-reach two handed weapon, especially something as iconic as the greatsword?

The damage die gets multiplied if you get to use the higher-level powers such as the one the Dwarven Fighter has in Keep of the Shadowfell: 3[W] for the Maul or 6d6 (in the case of the Greatsword, 3d10 vs 3d8+1 of the Longsword).

 

[icarussc]

Yeah, but it'll be a while before you get to 6[w] powers . . . I mean, I like shields -- I used 'em in 3e, when everyone said they were awful, but I also like to feel like I'm actually accomplishing something by using a gigantosword instead of a regular one, and Str mod x 1.5 did that for me.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Yeah, but it'll be a while before you get to 6[w] powers . . . I mean, I like shields -- I used 'em in 3e, when everyone said they were awful, but I also like to feel like I'm actually accomplishing something by using a gigantosword instead of a regular one, and Str mod x 1.5 did that for me.

6[W] is an exaggeration to show the effect. In the end its not going to be much of a difference, but the point is that there is a difference and you can make a choice between one or the other.

 

[Lurker59]

Also the power attack feat adds more damage to attacks when using two handed weapons, (+3,+6,+9) per tier rather than (+2,+4,+6). Also reach weapons are two-handed and many have two weapon types so I'm expecting halberds and such to become more popular.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

That's a pretty marginal difference, honestly. In 3.x, you were trading lots of damage for lots of protection. It seems like you're now trading lots of protection for not that much damage. Once you get a few magic items that small difference is going to look even smaller.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think it is an excellent change.

2H weapons still do more damage (and more more damage with exploits) than 1H weapons or 1H versatile weapons used with two hands.

Plus, as has been mentioned, there are feats and exploits that do more bonus damage with 2H weapons than with anything else.

2H weapons ruled the roost in 3.5e (they weren't quite so bad in 3e). I'm really glad to see the back of "1.5xstr bonus" because that just amplified their damage for free.

Huzzah for 4e, where S&B vs 2H is a realistic choice once more!

 

[Lurker59]

As I understand it the AC and reflex bonus provided by shields will always remain constant throughout the tiers. It's probably more accurate to say your giving up a little damage in exchange for a little defense. Power selection will likely be the most affected by weapon choice.

 

[Destil]

That's a pretty marginal difference, honestly. In 3.x, you were trading lots of damage for lots of protection. It seems like you're now trading lots of protection for not that much damage. Once you get a few magic items that small difference is going to look even smaller.

As I understand it the AC and reflex bonus provided by shields will always remain constant throughout the tiers. It's probably more accurate to say your giving up a little damage in exchange for a little defense. Power selection will likely be the most affected by weapon choice.

This. Shields no longer grant enhancement bonuses. And the math is more linear overall, so you should always be happy to pick up a +2 one way or another. I believe shields max out at +3 with a feat?