Two Questions

[nute]

One, and this seems dog simple, but I just want to make sure...

+1 flaming burst longsword. Normal damage = 1d8 +1 + 1d6(fire)

On a critical hit - 2d8 + 2 + 1d6 (fire) +1d10 (fire)?

Or is the d6 fire damage replaced by the d10?


Two - regarding armor of fortification. Heavy fortification = a 100% protection from critical hits and sneak attacks. Would this also negate that extra damage from a flaming burst weapon?

 

[Mordane76]

One --

The way I've always read it is that burst weapons like that deal 1d10 INSTEAD OF a 1d6, not 1d10 IN ADDITION TO 1d6.


Two --

Just because one can't be crit'ed doesn't mean the weapon doesn't do its +1d6 fire damage. It just means that it will never do +1d10 fire damage against that target because they can't be crit'ed.

 

[Bauglir]

Comparing a flaming weapon to a flaming burst weapon, looking specifically at the extra damage..

Assuming a 20 critical:

If you replace the d6 with a d10:

Average extra damage normally = 3.5
Average extra damage on a critical hit = 5.5
Difference = 2
Chance to critical = 1/20
Therefore overall average damage increase = 0.1 damage

Underwhelming to say the least..

If you add the d10 to the d6:

Difference = 5.5
Overall average damage increase = 0.275 damage

Looking at replacing the d6 with a d10, one would need to somehow threaten a critical on a 11 or higher to match the effectiveness of simply adding a further +1 to the weapon (only considering damage).

Looking at adding the d10 to the d6, one would need to threaten to critical on a 16 or higher to match a +1 enchantment.

So a keen scimitar, or a keen sword + improved critical would slightly exceed a +1 enchantment. A keen scimitar with improved critical would actually increase the average damage by +2.2.

The special enchantments should do more damage than the basic +1 - that's the tradeoff for losing DR penetration, and bonus to hit. Even with the d10 damage added this is a weak enchantment.

Therefore, it would be reasonable to ADD the d10 upon critical hits.

Edit: Repeating myself in my old age

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The d10 is in addition to the d6 (that's in the FAQ or errata somewhere).

And I think you'll avoid all the damage that's because of the crit, so the d10 are lost, too.

 

[Spatzimaus]

A Flaming Burst weapon does 1d6 on all hits and an additional Xd10 on a critical hit. It's in the DMG Errata.

On a critical hit, it'd do what you thought: 2d8+2+1d6fire+1d10fire. Even if the target was immune to crits you'd still keep the 1d6 fire.

Your second question: as written, any ability that negates critical hits prevents abilities that key off critical hits (like the d10 bursting), but personally that's a rule we've never liked IMC for two reasons:
1> The on-crit abilities are weak enough as it is. Flaming adds, on the average hit, 3.5 damage to a longsword. The burst part of Flaming Burst adds, on average, 0.55 damage per hit to a longsword. Each of these parts is a +1 Market Price; is that fair?
2> The text describes the sword bursting into flame on a good hit. How does an unintelligent weapon know a "good hit", and from the sword's point of view, what difference would it make whether the target has no internal organs?

 

[RigaMortus]

2> The text describes the sword bursting into flame on a good hit. How does an unintelligent weapon know a "good hit", and from the sword's point of view, what difference would it make whether the target has no internal organs?

Just to play devil's advocate here... The sword doesn't need to know a "good hit" because the armor of 100% Fortification makes it impossible to get any "good hits", regardless of what is rolled on the d20. So it would never come up...

Look at it this way, the burst effect happens when your sword hit's that vital spot. Fort armor negates your chance to hit that vital spot. So if you don't (or can't) hit that vital spot, the burst effect doesn't go off.

OR

You could look at it another way. The sword randomly activates it's burst effect. The requirement for this random activation is a scoring a successful hit within the threat range of the weapon AND confirming that threat.

I guess it's all in how you look at it...

 

[melkoriii]

A Flaming Burst weapon does 1d6 on all hits and an additional Xd10 on a critical hit. It's in the DMG Errata.

On a critical hit, it'd do what you thought: 2d8+2+1d6fire+1d10fire. Even if the target was immune to crits you'd still keep the 1d6 fire.

Your second question: as written, any ability that negates critical hits prevents abilities that key off critical hits (like the d10 bursting), but personally that's a rule we've never liked IMC for two reasons:
1> The on-crit abilities are weak enough as it is. Flaming adds, on the average hit, 3.5 damage to a longsword. The burst part of Flaming Burst adds, on average, 0.55 damage per hit to a longsword. Each of these parts is a +1 Market Price; is that fair?
2> The text describes the sword bursting into flame on a good hit. How does an unintelligent weapon know a "good hit", and from the sword's point of view, what difference would it make whether the target has no internal organs?

The DMG Errata does not say this.

here is the SRD with the errata.

Flaming Burst
Upon command a flaming burst weapon deals +1d6 points of bonus fire damage on a successful hit. In addition it also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the hands that hold the weapon. Flaming burst weapons deal +1d10 points of bonus fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is x3, add +2d10 points of bonus fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is x4, add +3d10 points of bonus fire damage. Bows, crossbows, and slings so enchanted bestow the fire energy upon their ammunition.
Caster Level: 12th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Market Price: +2 bonus.

Notice the bold text. Any bonus with the same name does not stack, it replaces.

Burst weapons have the advantage that they can do more damage on a crit and is best placed on a weapon with a x3 or greater crit multiplier.

 

[Janos Antero]

Fire damage is not listed as a bonus type either though, it could reasonably assumed that it is an unnamed bonus (fire is an elemental descriptor, not a type of bonus), so it's still up for interpretation.

 

[melkoriii]

Fire damage is not listed as a bonus type either though, it could reasonably assumed that it is an unnamed bonus (fire is an elemental descriptor, not a type of bonus), so it's still up for interpretation.

So I could make a +1 Flamming, FLamming, Flamming longsword that does 1d8 +1+3d6 fire on every hit.

 

[Janos Antero]

There is a prescedence set for the same enchantment not stacking more than once even if it gives an unnamed bonus. If you could stack the same enchantment more than once if it didn't give a bonus, for example Etheralness more than once.

But if there were two different enchantments that gave fire damage, that might stack. I haven't seen anything clearly contrary to that.