D&D 5E Use of Investigation

[ExploderWizard]

Intelligence (Investigation) is for Active search for things you don't know are there or can't perceive without interaction.
Wisdom (Perception) is for Passive Search and for Active Search of things you can already perceive.

Basically
Perception is for searching in plain sight.
Investigation is for search in hidden view.

Like the PHB say, you can't find a key in a drawer with Perception unless you say "I open the drawer" to open the drawer.
But you can find the key with Investigation because rolling high enough "makes you open the drawer".

Also Investigation is the "logical step search".
Perception tells you that the noble's shoes are dirty.
Investigation tells you (if pointed out via Perception or interaction) that the dirt is fresh, what type of dirt it is, and that noble is a dirty liar and he did go outside during the ball..... ARREST THAT MAN AND HOLD HIM FOR FURTHER QUESTIONING!!!.

Players don't ask to make checks or "use skills" at my table. They describe what they want to do and then I tell them the result, sometimes asking for a check if I think their goal and approach relative to the situation has an uncertain outcome. In a game where the DM decides on success, failure, or uncertainty, players shouldn't really want to roll if you think about it. They should just want outright success and roll only when necessary.

The only stumbling block to this very wonderful and awesome way of doing things are players that learned how to play in WOTC editions of the game. The general rules-first approach of these systems impresses upon the player that nothing of consequence or meaning takes place without a die roll and that anything is doable with a high enough result. The formula being -1) find out what skills are applicable, 2) find the characters with the highest modifiers to those skills, 3) have these characters perform the task, 4) rinse, repeat.

Actually interacting with the environment instead of the rules is even trickier when the game is run by a DM who was taught only WOTC D&D. If a die roll as a gatekeeper of anything meaningful happening is ingrained in the DM then players calling out skill checks is the only way anything is happening and thats kind of sad.

 

[Agamon]

Perception is for finding things. Investigation is for figuring things out.

Finding the secret door uses perception. Figuring out how it opens is investigation.

Finding a trap is perception. Figuring out how to bypass/disable it is investigation.

Finding a clue is perception. Figuring out what it signifies is investigation.

Etc...

 

[Agamon]

The only stumbling block to this very wonderful and awesome way of doing things are players that learned how to play in WOTC editions of the game. The general rules-first approach of these systems impresses upon the player that nothing of consequence or meaning takes place without a die roll and that anything is doable with a high enough result. The formula being -1) find out what skills are applicable, 2) find the characters with the highest modifiers to those skills, 3) have these characters perform the task, 4) rinse, repeat.

That which is learned can be unlearned. It can take a bit of training, but it can be done.

Once my players found out that things of consequence can indeed happen without die rolls, and a bad die roll could lead to a bad consequence, automatically wanting to roll isn't really a thing. Now my players try to do as much as possible without the roll.

 

[Minigiant]

The only stumbling block to this very wonderful and awesome way of doing things are players that learned how to play in WOTC editions of the game. The general rules-first approach of these systems impresses upon the player that nothing of consequence or meaning takes place without a die roll and that anything is doable with a high enough result. The formula being -1) find out what skills are applicable, 2) find the characters with the highest modifiers to those skills, 3) have these characters perform the task, 4) rinse, repeat.

Actually interacting with the environment instead of the rules is even trickier when the game is run by a DM who was taught only WOTC D&D. If a die roll as a gatekeeper of anything meaningful happening is ingrained in the DM then players calling out skill checks is the only way anything is happening and thats kind of sad.

It's not either or.

One could find a secret passage, a hidden thief, or a key in a drawer but interacting with the environment. It just might take forever. You can search every single brick in a hallway for a draft but the orcs might catch up to you by the time you find it.

Perception and Investigation are shortcut for searches and figuring things out. But Perception only catches things you can perceive openly and Investigation only figures out the situation based on what you perceived already.

The best use is doing both. Rolling skills and interacting with the environment to search everything and fast. The smart way is to ask for what you perceive, then ask what information you infer based on the perception, then interact with those things, and repeat.

 

[Li Shenron]

Most of the times I've used Perception to "detect", "notice" or "become aware" of something (five senses or more), without knowing much about it, and Investigation to "examine" it (using logic and deduction to figure out the hows and the whys).

So with Perception you may notice that one tile on the floor is different, but it doesn't tell you whether it's a trap or a secret treasure compartment. You may detect that someone's talking behind a door, that there's a flow of fresh air coming from the tunnel on the left, that there's a faint smell in the air, that you have seen this object before, that your tea tastes wrong, that you have been travelling in circles, or that something's about to attack you. Most of the times Perception works as a reaction or as a passive ability, but nothing wrong with a player's asking if they notice something interesting and let them roll proactively.

Usually Investigation has some declared purpose, although it doesn't need to be overly specific, and that's why it's mostly an activity. Passive Investigation can be allowed mostly to avoid routine checks, but in general I'd say you can't be investigating every possibility all the time. You can search for traps and be told where they are and how they work, eavesdrop on a conversation to capture useful information, sort out the nature and details of that feeling/smell/taste/deja-vu or even guesstimate who and how many are the ambushers awaiting for you.

 

[S'mon]

Just a little question: how do you use the Investigation skill in your games? I've been using it as an analog of 3E Search, finding hidden traps and doors and such. Per the PHB, that's covered by Perception, but Perception is already a really good skill, and Investigation doesn't seem to do much. Thoughts?

Yeah, that's what I do. As written it's pointless, so I have the Rogue use it to find traps.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! Looks like I'm not the only one who finds the usages of these skills a little vague.

Would you use Investigation to give solutions or hints to puzzles and riddles? If the PC Indy has to "walk in the name of God", would his Investigation skill help him, is it just straight Intelligence, or does his player Harrison actually have to figure it out for himself?

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

To borrow a scene from Sherlock Holmes.

Perception lets you notice the pink-shaded tattoo on the mans wrist. Investigation lets you know that the pink shading is found only in China so the man is probably a sailor.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Personally I find the book descriptions of perception, investigation and knowledge skills to be so overlapping and conflicting with the goal of having players pay attention to the game that I rewrite how they work.

Perception is obtaining knowledge of a subject without interacting with it. Listening in on rumors in a tavern, seeing the port that a trap shoots an arrow from, spotting the ancient runes on the archway and seeing through a disguise that is just not right are all perception checks. Perception is less effective at finding things, but doesn't expose you to danger and doesn't destroy the subject.

Investigation is obtaining knowledge by interacting with the subject. Poking a 10 foot pole to find a pressure trap, actively questioning tavern goers, scrubbing the dirt off the ancient obscured runes and flicking wine onto someone's face to subtly ruin someone's disguise are all investigation. Investigation typically finds more, but entails more risk - a bad investigate roll might ruin what you are investigating, or put you in the line of fire.

I also use the variant that allows for different stats/skill combinations, so if it makes sense to me that a character will be good at a particular investigative approach, they might use a different stat (the most common being charisma/investigate for gathering information).

Piecing together clues is an exercise for the collective mind of the players.

 

[Knight_Marshal]

If it is in the open to be seen or heard, then you roll perception. If not, then you must find it by investigation.

To use 3E terms:
Perception = Spot
Investigation = Search