Weapon Speeds For d20 Fantasy Gaming

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

For most fighters, they will probably still be better served with a 2 handed weapon for power attack related reasons.

Or, say, a fast one-handed weapon wielded in both hands, instead of a normal two-handed weapon.

 

[Water Bob]

Or, say, a fast one-handed weapon wielded in both hands, instead of a normal two-handed weapon.

Thought you were done here?

 

[Dandu]

Or, say, a fast one-handed weapon wielded in both hands, instead of a normal two-handed weapon

Ah, right. Good point.

A Scimitar wielded in two hands (1d8 base damage) has 2.5 less damage on average than a Greatsword (2d6 base damage) but if it gets better accuracy or more attacks, then that might make the Greatsword undesirable.

Of course, I'm just eyeballing here.

 

[Water Bob]

55% chance to-hit, Oh Statistical Genius.

I think that tells us all we really need to know.

Not in Conan, which is my reference. Ties indicate something else (like the two weapons being locked together) rather than a hit.

That's why I said 50%.

You're pretty rude, too.

Look, you posted your article by an accomplished d20 game designer. I thank you for doing that. It is an informative read. But, you're carrying on about the rule being "bad" (by your implication, of course) is not really serving the thread. You're upset because I don't agree with you or the article. If I'm wrong, then just let me be wrong and stop taking the thread into a flame war. You've said your peace.

I see what you're trying to say, and I don't agree. Let's move on. Anybody who wonders about using the rule can read the artcile, read this thread, and decide for themselves.

 

[Dandu]

The thought occurs that if we took the time and effort that went into posting and being angry and channeled it into a playtest, we would have an idea of how weapon speeds affected a game by now.

 

[nonsi256]

[MENTION=23094]Patryn of Elvenshae[/MENTION] - you're nitpicking on things that have negligible to zero gameplay impact. I'm talking about jumping the gun on that 55% or the "mammoth" +/-1 attack roll diff due to sequence change. As for the "fix" part you were nitpicking on - regard it as a preliminary counter-nitpicking measure instead of a "fix" and we're golden.

 

[Dandu]

Are you saying that, basically, the changes implemented by a weapon speed rule would be minimal?

 

[Ashtagon]

To me the biggest point against this system is that it creates one-level and two-level "blips" during which (for example) longswords are statistically superior to great swords. Yes, overall, across 20 levels, great swords will be superior longswords. But at any given character level, that isn't what matters. A level 6 barbarian won't care that next level he gains an extra attack with a great sword. What matters is that in this current fight, he has that extra attack.

 

[Herzog]

The thought occurs that if we took the time and effort that went into posting and being angry and channeled it into a playtest, we would have an idea of how weapon speeds affected a game by now.

..And if someone can give me a set of starting parameters, I'd be willing to do the math.

What would be required?
-All attack bonusses from lvl 1 through 20
-combined with all possible strength scores
-against all possible AC's (anyone have an AC range suggestion?)
-with all options of power attack
-for normal and two weapon fighting (and how do we handle secondary off-hand attacks?)
-for all weapons?

comparing the average damage per round for standard attack progression with the weapon speed attack progression (assuming full attacks)
Where average damage is the sum of average damage per attack for all attacks in a round, and average damage per attack is the chance the hit multiplied with the average damage for the weapon.

That's a lot of numbers to run. I'll see if I can come up with something.....

 

[kitcik]

Ah, right. Good point.

A Scimitar wielded in two hands (1d8 base damage) has 2.5 less damage on average than a Greatsword (2d6 base damage) but if it gets better accuracy or more attacks, then that might make the Greatsword undesirable.

Of course, I'm just eyeballing here.

Hence, the terms "greatsword" and "nerf" ended up in the same sentence...

Tough luck for fighters, but they had it too easy anyhow. Now they must be grittier.