D&D General What D&D reflects today, media wise...

Aldarc

Legend
Picking on you only because you're the most recent person to mention this in the thread, but:

What the hell is a MOBA?
Wasn’t this explained when DOTA was explained? No worries.

Multiplayer Online Battle Arena: a genre of games that originally developed from the Warcraft 3 modding community, namely a game mode called Defense of the Ancients (“Dota”). There should be details on how DotA and MOBAs generally work should be found earlier in the thread.

Notable Examples:
  • League of Legends
  • Dota 2
  • Heroes of the Storm
  • Smite
 

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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Picking on you only because you're the most recent person to mention this in the thread, but:

What the hell is a MOBA?
Building off the previous answer:

Because MOBAs grew out of the Warcraft 3 modding community, they have inherited a set of common characteristics to one degree or another. These are:

  • Players choose a "hero"/"champion" to play, as the original DotA map re-purposed the WC3 "hero" mechanic; these heroes defend one base on the map against enemy assault, while trying to assault the enemy base.
  • Each hero has a small, fixed set of abilities. Typically there are three "regular" abilities, which can improve in power once per hero level, and one "ultimate" ability, which can only improve at slower intervals. Some games (like LoL) also give some unique, innate passive ability (that does not rank up, but may improve with use) to each hero, though this is not a universal feature.
  • Heroes primarily gain power from being the person to successfully strike the killing blow against an enemy (NPC mooks or opponent heroes), gaining XP and money. XP works as you'd expect. Money buys magic equipment. And on that note...
  • Magic equipment is vital to becoming strong. Without it, most heroes are not able to hold their own. Correct selection of your item build, in terms of both which items and which order you acquire them, is essential in most MOBAs, though not all (Heroes of the Storm, Blizzard's only official entry into the field, did not depend as much on item builds and was more concerned with branching ability options.)
  • Every hero is designed with a spectrum of roles in mind. It may be possible to play outside those roles, but usually this is not intended and may result in gameplay changes (the video game equivalent of errata). These include "tanky bruiser" (someone who hits hard but can also take hits), "CC" (crowd control, those who can prevent enemy escape), "carry" (heroes who can do great damage but, usually, cannot take damage well, so they need more survivable allies between them and the front line), "jungle" (characters that are relatively independently survivable, and who can thus wander outside the usual fighting lanes, killing monsters and securing early kills on enemy heroes), "support" (offering buffs, cleansing, healing, etc. to allies), etc. Most heroes will have at least 3-4 intended roles, some more, but it's rare to see less than that. As noted, item build heavily affects performance so items often determine what a hero is focused on doing in a given game.
That probably covers enough of the mechanical angle to give you more context about what is being described. I imagine the emphasis on items would be reduced but not eliminated, but how one would translate the more underlying mechanical structure effectively is less clear.
 


Following a MOBA model of class design (a small suite of scaling bespoke powers available at the beginning of play, upgrades and new powers available via item acquistion, a high level capstone) is unironically a good idea.
For myself, if I want a game that does all things I want in a ttrpg and lets me ignore stuff I don't care about, the ideal rpg is PathFinder 2e.

But as I think about the people I play with, I feel like, for a lot of them, it might be better to take a few steps in the opposite direction: have character with impact race and background, a class built around a single mechanic that comes online pretty early, and then let the character proceed form there not by class tables or level-based bonuses, but in-universe rewards. This allows the game (the story, the fiction) to guide progression.

This is because I find a lot of people don't think of dnd as a game, really. It's a shared story thing, with gamey stuff tacked on. They want to write characters and tell stories about those characters. Maybe roll some dice. They don't want to do "builds" or master systems. They don't care for the wargaming roots of the hobby, but aren't quite willing to go full improv.

The structure would be something like: you should have all your core/ key/ defining features at level 1, though perhaps in limited versions. By level 5 or so you should get all the basic stuff up and running. Past that, rewards should have direct in-universe causes: you learn spells by finding scrolls and books, you learn maneuvers and feats from... scrolls and books and maybe trainers. (Skill feats would be the rogue-group option.) You get boons from spirits, and magic items to expand and enhance your capabilities.

The decisions you make past level 1 should only be specializing in stuff you could already do at level 1 - ie Fighting Styles. They should not add new options (ie spells at level 3) or change the priority of ability scores.

But level 10 or 11, you stop getting major number improvements: your base attack bonus has peaked, you only get a couple hp per level, no more spell slots, etc. It's all about paragon and epic boons and magic items by then.

Cons to this approach: 20 classes is probably a minimum. (Not as big a deal since classes don't require subclasses or as much mechanics). Races will be less flexible than the current system (though probably not as much as, say, PF2) You absolutely must give dm's solid, understandable guidance on how many rewards to include. (Bad: no guidance. Okay: you must give X items to players at level Y. Great: here's some different rates for rewards you can give, and how those affect the game as a whole.)
 

Aldarc

Legend
Damn that's horrible but true.
Welcome to the Dark Side.

Building off the previous answer:
  • Every hero is designed with a spectrum of roles in mind. It may be possible to play outside those roles, but usually this is not intended and may result in gameplay changes (the video game equivalent of errata). These include "tanky bruiser" (someone who hits hard but can also take hits), "CC" (crowd control, those who can prevent enemy escape), "carry" (heroes who can do great damage but, usually, cannot take damage well, so they need more survivable allies between them and the front line), "jungle" (characters that are relatively independently survivable, and who can thus wander outside the usual fighting lanes, killing monsters and securing early kills on enemy heroes), "support" (offering buffs, cleansing, healing, etc. to allies), etc. Most heroes will have at least 3-4 intended roles, some more, but it's rare to see less than that. As noted, item build heavily affects performance so items often determine what a hero is focused on doing in a given game.
That probably covers enough of the mechanical angle to give you more context about what is being described. I imagine the emphasis on items would be reduced but not eliminated, but how one would translate the more underlying mechanical structure effectively is less clear.
And building off this answer a bit more for @Lanefan:

Heroes in MOBAs are generally designed with a role in mind. League of Legends calls them "classes," but they are closer to 4e-style Roles (e.g., Leader, Defender, Striker, Controller) with further sub-roles:
* Controller/Support: either boosting/supporting allies or locking down opponents
  • Enchanter
  • Catcher
* Fighter/Bruiser: durable, melee-damage focused characters (between Slayer and Tank)
  • Juggernaut
  • Diver
* Mage: damage typically comes more from their abilities/spells rather than auto-attacks
  • Burst
  • Battlemage
  • Artillery
* Marksman: (often fragile) sustained range damage

* Slayer: agile, damage-focused melee champions
  • Assassin
  • Skirmisher
* Tank: low damage, high survivability, often with abilities to initiate fights, crowd control, or peel enemy heroes
  • Vanguard
  • Warden
* Specialist: typically don't fit in other roles, but often exhibit zone control

Compare with the simplified roles from Blizzard's Heroes of the Storm:
  • Assassin: Melee or Ranged (Sustained or Mage)
  • Bruiser
  • Healer
  • Support/Specialist
  • Tank
 
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While D&D should be influenced by knowledge of mechanics in other mediums, that influence should be tempered by the demands of the different media. And there's no reason why that influence should necessarily come from media with similar fiction. (eg. a good stealth minigame should probably take influence from stealth computer games which have wrestled with this problem for quite some time, but there's no real reason that influence should be from fantasy sources in particular.)

This thread seems to have drifted from influence of fiction to influence on mechanics. Or we seem to be assuming perhaps that a fictional influence should be linked to a mechanical one - which I don't see as necessarily being the case.
 
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Reynard

Legend
While D&D should be influenced by knowledge of mechanics in other mediums, that influence should be tempered by the demands of the different media. And there's no reason why that influence should necessarily come from media with similar fiction. (eg. a good stealth minigame should probably take influence from stealth computer games which have wrestled with this problem for quite some time, but there's no real reason that influence should be from fantasy sources in particular.)

This thread seems to have drifted from influence on fiction to influence on mechanics. Or we seem to be assuming perhaps that a fictional influence should be linked to a mechanical one - which I don't see as necessarily being the case.
D&D is a game. It makes perfect sense that we would consider other games in relation to D&D more than other fiction.
 




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