D&D 5E What direction should 5th edition take?

[MKULTRA]

I'd like to see something classless. Hard to balance I suspect.

4E is supposedly balanced...oh wait, it's not classless, it just has one class.

HHM?!? What is the difference between one class and no classes?

o Everybody gets 2-3 cantrips usable at-will
o Everbody gets the same number of per-encounter spells (exploits, prayers, whatever)
o Everybody gets the same# of daily spells.

It really feels like everybody is just a different kind of wizard.

 

[-Avalon-]

4E is supposedly balanced...oh wait, it's not classless, it just has one class.

HHM?!? What is the difference between one class and no classes?

o Everybody gets 2-3 cantrips usable at-will
o Everbody gets the same number of per-encounter spells (exploits, prayers, whatever)
o Everybody gets the same# of daily spells.

It really feels like everybody is just a different kind of wizard.

For instance, I am a melee-teleportation wizard.... (avenger, I pop all over the place and smack stuff)

 

[Garthanos]

Derailing a bit, but...

IMO the best thing about HERO is the freedom to define flavor however you want. The worst thing was the lack of balance.

Sure flavor freedom is in D&D identical to Hero just not as well presented...

HERO has freedom to fully interact with lower level mechanics... and you absolutely HAVE to interact with those mechanics.... By giving a large pre-built power base D&D short cuts passed all that math which people dont like in HERO...and D&D vaguely uses examples so that you can get the idea of skinning (I would prefer more explicitness)

 

[DracoSuave]

4E is supposedly balanced...oh wait, it's not classless, it just has one class.

HHM?!? What is the difference between one class and no classes?

o Everybody gets 2-3 cantrips usable at-will
o Everbody gets the same number of per-encounter spells (exploits, prayers, whatever)
o Everybody gets the same# of daily spells.

It really feels like everybody is just a different kind of wizard.

Obvious troll is obvious

 

[-Avalon-]

Obvious troll is obvious

Why is this an obvious troll btw? Not trying to start anything, but I read his post, and felt some of the same issues with 4th...

In 1st - 3rd Ed, I had a completely unique character, every morsel that went into my build was all me and made up a character that was unlike any other that my group had...

So how is it, that when this person states that 4th has made our characters "feel" very similar to one another, almost to the point of being generic, he is a troll? (he may very well be one, but that post is not indicative of a troll imo)

 

[DracoSuave]

Why is this an obvious troll btw? Not trying to start anything, but I read his post, and felt some of the same issues with 4th...

In 1st - 3rd Ed, I had a completely unique character, every morsel that went into my build was all me and made up a character that was unlike any other that my group had...

So how is it, that when this person states that 4th has made our characters "feel" very similar to one another, almost to the point of being generic, he is a troll? (he may very well be one, but that post is not indicative of a troll imo)

Because

1) it's such an old argument, it's been done to death over a year ago, to the point where even bringing it up is considered a violation of Terms of Use here.

2) Someone's first post on EnWorld is to make that old comment after a year of development of the game, and proof that the classes are -not- the same? Yes. Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[DonAdam]

I love 4e overall, but...

-I could go for the un-Diablification of magic items.

-Likewise, I don't need lots of magic items with overlapping abilities (different kinds of lightsabers, etc.). Flipping through AV (whether on screen in CB or Compendium or in print) just feels like a tax on my time.

-Fewer item slots.

-I guess the above three all indicate that I want less of a role for magic items, especially as "standard gear."*

-That said, more items should look like wondrous items and less like iron armbands of power.

-More niche protection, including:
--More differentiation of power sources right out of the gate with PHB 1 (like what they're doing with psionics now)
--Cleaner differentiation among roles

-Reign in multi-attacks once and for all.

-Adopt something like Stalker0's Obsidian skill challenge system.

-Traps that do more than a bit of damage, especially for use outside of combat. They just don't feel as sexy as they used to.

-I have no idea how, but something to make the at-wills feel less repetitive would be nice.

-On the structural level, make Dragon all playtest (instead of "official") and make the annual compendiums what's official. This will give a chance to playtest that stuff more thoroughly, because it varies wildly. I think this should be done at least for PC material; messed up monsters throw one encounter out of whack, unbalanced PC material can mess up a good part of a campaign.


*I know this is easily fixed when I'm DM'ing by replacing magic items with built-in bonuses, but the exercise here is imagining what we want the "default position" to be. So these are not attacks but mere preferences.

 

[eriktheguy]

My biggest complaint is that the mystery and magic is gone.

There are no surprises, no secrets, nothing...

we have the fighter say, "We take a 5 minute break and identify the sword..."

we have the party say, "Ok, what check is it, Arcana? Religion? Dungeoneering? Nature?" and identify the monster in no time

We also have the players handing in lists of items they want, and the books tell the DM to make sure they become available...

5th edition: Bring THAT back.

I think you can add these things with any edition. Just because DnD has knowledge entries in the Monster Manual, and suggests that you ask for wish lists, doesn't mean you must use them. These rules are simple and predictable and in fact work best for the majority of groups. The rules should stay as they are and we can allow individual groups like your own that prefer different play-styles to improvise as they see fit. To fix your problem, simply hand out magic items you think the players will like, throw in the occasional curse, make sure they have the 'transfer enchantment' ritual, and don't always reveal monster knowledge to them.

But seriously: fewer classes, more customization. I don't think we'll get classless, because D&D is so class-oriented, but I think we could do very well with fewer, more customizable classes.

Cheers, -- N

Agree. A lot of classes have far too few options in this edition. I can seriously only make like 3 paladins or clerics, but about a dozen fighters. So why are they making more classes without fixing the ones that are already out?






I think a general balance update, with a few more simplifications and tweaks is good. I want to see an improvement towards online/electronic support. I love the current character generator but refuse to pay for updates as long as 'balance fixes' are managed by feat taxes. For example, in 5e I would expect problems like the expertise feats or the epic defenses feats to be solved by changing the rules 'patch' style.
I hope that 5e is available both as paper and digitally.

 

[Garthanos]

Because

1) it's such an old argument, it's been done to death over a year ago, to the point where even bringing it up is considered a violation of Terms of Use here.

2) Someone's first post on EnWorld is to make that old comment after a year of development of the game, and proof that the classes are -not- the same? Yes. Obvious troll is obvious.

Heh 1st post or 200th same diff..

 

[-Avalon-]

Because

1) it's such an old argument, it's been done to death over a year ago, to the point where even bringing it up is considered a violation of Terms of Use here.

2) Someone's first post on EnWorld is to make that old comment after a year of development of the game, and proof that the classes are -not- the same? Yes. Obvious troll is obvious.

As I said, he may very well be a troll... I don't know for sure, and I don't think anyone really knows... that is indeed his very first post. Of course, everyone's first post has a minute chance of being something that is like that. What if that is his honest opinion, and he chose for his first post to be about that? I don't point fingers, I don't label people, etc... so if he is a troll, then that is what we have Mod's for (catch em and ban em!) But if he isn't, then I don't think it is my position to label him and potentially cause detriment to what could possibly be a future poster on these boards...

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As for the topic at hand, I read the thread on "Tomb of Horrors" and 4th ed not being tough enough, and I think that is one of the problems I have with it... Perhaps in 5th, they could fix this? In 4th, it seems that you are mostly at danger around 3rd - 7th level, then from 8th - 13th you are only slightly at danger, from 14th to 17th not really in any sort of danger, and from 18th on? Is a cake-walk!

Our last session... The rogue did a perpetual loop knockout on a Tarrasque! I tossed Cyan Bloodbane through a portal... we had two things that summoned a sphere of annhilation and ran around hitting all of us... we laughed at it, and kept fighting!

Where is the danger? Where is the possibility of losing? In 5th, I would like to see them make traps be something our rogues actually look for, not something that the party just triggers and whacks until it stops hurting. Make mobs be something to be feared... not just mobile pools of experience that happens to be lugging around the magic item you want... Stuff needs to be challenging.

I still say bring back mystery and magic as well... Because of these two things, my group tends to just stroll down a corridor confidently awaiting something to whack! We have more fun and more danger/excitement/mystery in town talking to NPCs (and this is mainly because our rogue who is our diplomat tends to roll either 18-20 or 1-3... need to check his die and see if other numbers exist... the other diplomat is our fighter who worships Bane... got kicked out of town for being a Bane worshipper, sneaks back in, walks in a bar, tells the guards "You have 24 hrs to leave MY town")...