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- Thread starter zhouluyi
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Brazilian translation of berserker
Today I was flipping through the Players Handbook 2 in portuguese at a store, and noticed that Frenzied Berseker was translated as Enfurecido Frenético (frenzied infuriated). I think that is dead wrong, since the berseker surely will meet with words like rage (furor), fury (fúria), anger (raiva), etc. Which produces not so nice results like: Furor do Enfurecido, Fúria do Enfurecido, Raiva do Enfurecido.
Or even worse, a meeting like Furious Berserker would result in Enfurecido Furioso... pleonasm all the way...
I was thinking on what could be used to translate Berserker (assuming it would be translated). At first I discarded all fury related words and derivatives (furioso, enfurecido, raivoso, colérico, etc) since it might create strange encounters like I said before.
Then I discarded words that are related in meaning and might appear together or that are used as more direct translations of other words like fanatic (fanático), frenzied/frenetic (frenético), cruel (cruel), ferocius (feroz), brutal (brutal), mindless (ensandecido), bestial (bestial), etc.
Now I'm not left with many words that might describe the attitude of a berserker, but then I remember of sanguinary (sanguinário) which might just work. Though it might still cause problems if a bloody/sanguinary berserker is used.
What do you think? Can you think of any word to translate berserker to portuguese?
EDIT: Just found this in Houaiss:
Arrebatar: v. (1269) 1 t.d.bit. levar com violência ou de súbito; arrancar <arrebataram a bolsa (dos meus braços)> 2 t.d.bit. carregar pelos ares (o vento) <a. as flores (do solo)> 3 t.d. cometer o crime de rapto contra; sequestrar <arrebatou o homem e pediu um resgate> 4 t.d. e pron. atrair ou sentir-se atraído; encantar(-se) <a poesia o arrebata> <a.-se com a canção> 5 t.d. e pron. enfurecer ou deixar-se levar pela fúria; irar(-se) <a provocação o arrebatou> <a.-se a ponto de perder o controle> 6 t.d.bit. provocar, suscitar (reações emocionadas) <a atriz arrebatava aplausos (à plateia)> 7 pron. experimentar sensação de êxtase; maravilhar-se <a.-se em transportes místicos> 8 pron. tornar-se apaixonado <arrebata-se a toda hora>
Arrebatamento: s.m. (sXV) 1 ato ou efeito de arrebatar(-se) 2 comportamento precipitado, inconsiderado 3 sensação de êxtase, de enlevo; arroubo, arroubamento 4 furor incontrolável; exaltação, ira
Arrebatador might be a good translation, even though the meaning in question is not very common, it is spot on.
Also, I found the term 'Amoque' which means basicly the same thing and is also used in some translations of Magic the Gathering for the term Berserker, but it is also based on a foreign word (Amok in this case).
Finally there is 'possesso', which means possessed by a demon and/or full of rage/wrath.
Today I was flipping through the Players Handbook 2 in portuguese at a store, and noticed that Frenzied Berseker was translated as Enfurecido Frenético (frenzied infuriated). I think that is dead wrong, since the berseker surely will meet with words like rage (furor), fury (fúria), anger (raiva), etc. Which produces not so nice results like: Furor do Enfurecido, Fúria do Enfurecido, Raiva do Enfurecido.
Or even worse, a meeting like Furious Berserker would result in Enfurecido Furioso... pleonasm all the way...
I was thinking on what could be used to translate Berserker (assuming it would be translated). At first I discarded all fury related words and derivatives (furioso, enfurecido, raivoso, colérico, etc) since it might create strange encounters like I said before.
Then I discarded words that are related in meaning and might appear together or that are used as more direct translations of other words like fanatic (fanático), frenzied/frenetic (frenético), cruel (cruel), ferocius (feroz), brutal (brutal), mindless (ensandecido), bestial (bestial), etc.
Now I'm not left with many words that might describe the attitude of a berserker, but then I remember of sanguinary (sanguinário) which might just work. Though it might still cause problems if a bloody/sanguinary berserker is used.
What do you think? Can you think of any word to translate berserker to portuguese?
EDIT: Just found this in Houaiss:
Arrebatar: v. (1269) 1 t.d.bit. levar com violência ou de súbito; arrancar <arrebataram a bolsa (dos meus braços)> 2 t.d.bit. carregar pelos ares (o vento) <a. as flores (do solo)> 3 t.d. cometer o crime de rapto contra; sequestrar <arrebatou o homem e pediu um resgate> 4 t.d. e pron. atrair ou sentir-se atraído; encantar(-se) <a poesia o arrebata> <a.-se com a canção> 5 t.d. e pron. enfurecer ou deixar-se levar pela fúria; irar(-se) <a provocação o arrebatou> <a.-se a ponto de perder o controle> 6 t.d.bit. provocar, suscitar (reações emocionadas) <a atriz arrebatava aplausos (à plateia)> 7 pron. experimentar sensação de êxtase; maravilhar-se <a.-se em transportes místicos> 8 pron. tornar-se apaixonado <arrebata-se a toda hora>
Arrebatamento: s.m. (sXV) 1 ato ou efeito de arrebatar(-se) 2 comportamento precipitado, inconsiderado 3 sensação de êxtase, de enlevo; arroubo, arroubamento 4 furor incontrolável; exaltação, ira
Arrebatador might be a good translation, even though the meaning in question is not very common, it is spot on.
Also, I found the term 'Amoque' which means basicly the same thing and is also used in some translations of Magic the Gathering for the term Berserker, but it is also based on a foreign word (Amok in this case).
Finally there is 'possesso', which means possessed by a demon and/or full of rage/wrath.
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Wepwawet
Explorer
Long story short, that's the reason why I play in english. Most of the translations into portuguese either yours or Devir's don't make sense or change the sense of the original idea.
That's probably because we speak portuguese as a first language, and the reason why the original english names sound cool, because they don't come from our mother tongue making them more "exotic".
Probably for anglophones, many of these names sound weird or too forced.
And as you know, the designers often pick an existing word and give it a new meaning (re: original elves [santa claus et al.] vs tolkien elves)
Bottom line, don't sweat it. Like, mostly any word can acquire the meaning you want to give it, it just needs to be used that way.
EDIT: Sorry, I know my post isn't very helpful. The thing is, this thread should be in a portuguese language board as it has little to do with 4E and most people here can't help you with the speciffic meanings of portuguese words (even I as portuguese use many of those words differently than you...)
Just pick one translation and stick to it. With use it will make all the sense in the world, that's what I say.
That's probably because we speak portuguese as a first language, and the reason why the original english names sound cool, because they don't come from our mother tongue making them more "exotic".
Probably for anglophones, many of these names sound weird or too forced.
And as you know, the designers often pick an existing word and give it a new meaning (re: original elves [santa claus et al.] vs tolkien elves)
See? That's what happens when you're too picky
For me this word "arrebatador" always appears connected to love and passion.
Bottom line, don't sweat it. Like, mostly any word can acquire the meaning you want to give it, it just needs to be used that way.
EDIT: Sorry, I know my post isn't very helpful. The thing is, this thread should be in a portuguese language board as it has little to do with 4E and most people here can't help you with the speciffic meanings of portuguese words (even I as portuguese use many of those words differently than you...)
Just pick one translation and stick to it. With use it will make all the sense in the world, that's what I say.
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[MENTION=56398]Wepwawet[/MENTION], I do like the original versions, thats why I have all the books post Essentials and the 3 core ones from 4e in english. But my players are mostly childs and teens who still don't have much grasp of english to understand what some obscure name means or to read a descriptive text and understand it fully. Therefore I adapt most of the things I use to portuguese.
Since my references and books are in english, I need a good correlation between the portuguese word and the english original word, so that at all times I know what is being talked about. This is not very easy to do, but I like doing it anyway, not because it is easy, but because I like to research translations. I like thinking about what would be a good word to represent some concept that don't exists in portuguese.
Take the berserker for example, I almost certain that I wont translate it, but it is nice to think of what would it be called in portuguese. Since my last post I thought about other options for it like Truculento (someone violent and brute), or Pelejador (someone who like to brawl). I think Truculento, Sanguinário and Pelejador right now are the best choices, but they still are not quite right.
Since my references and books are in english, I need a good correlation between the portuguese word and the english original word, so that at all times I know what is being talked about. This is not very easy to do, but I like doing it anyway, not because it is easy, but because I like to research translations. I like thinking about what would be a good word to represent some concept that don't exists in portuguese.
Take the berserker for example, I almost certain that I wont translate it, but it is nice to think of what would it be called in portuguese. Since my last post I thought about other options for it like Truculento (someone violent and brute), or Pelejador (someone who like to brawl). I think Truculento, Sanguinário and Pelejador right now are the best choices, but they still are not quite right.
Have you considered looking in portuguese-language historical texts covering the legends we're talking about to see how the scholars talk about it? You know, books about Germanic barbarian tribes to see how they talk about the subset of warriors known as berserkers; books in the occult to see how they talk about warlocks. Etc.
I say this because it's a bit different than looking in a dictionary or thesaurus- or even online resources like us here- for an answer.
[MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION], this is also part of my research. I work at an Humanities University so I have access to SOME materials that are help (old dictionaries help a lot). But we have no history course so I depend of online resources for history research.
Berserker is particulary problematic because it is not a proper noun. Almost all classes are name after a profession, berserk is and adjective, it describes a behavior. English already have on the language the concept of berserker as a noun (althought it still isn't a "profession" like a warrior or a fighter). When we bring berserk to portuguese we have to use verbs to describe "go berserk", and then find a verb that can be made into a proper noun and in the mean time is also descritive of a "profession". Very hard.
Berserker is particulary problematic because it is not a proper noun. Almost all classes are name after a profession, berserk is and adjective, it describes a behavior. English already have on the language the concept of berserker as a noun (althought it still isn't a "profession" like a warrior or a fighter). When we bring berserk to portuguese we have to use verbs to describe "go berserk", and then find a verb that can be made into a proper noun and in the mean time is also descritive of a "profession". Very hard.
[MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION], this is also part of my research. I work at an Humanities University so I have access to SOME materials that are help (old dictionaries help a lot). But we have no history course so I depend of online resources for history research.
Berserker is particulary problematic because it is not a proper noun. Almost all classes are name after a profession, berserk is and adjective, it describes a behavior. English already have on the language the concept of berserker as a noun (althought it still isn't a "profession" like a warrior or a fighter). When we bring berserk to portuguese we have to use verbs to describe "go berserk", and then find a verb that can be made into a proper noun and in the mean time is also descritive of a "profession". Very hard.
Berserker is particulary problematic because it is not a proper noun. Almost all classes are name after a profession, berserk is and adjective, it describes a behavior. English already have on the language the concept of berserker as a noun (althought it still isn't a "profession" like a warrior or a fighter). When we bring berserk to portuguese we have to use verbs to describe "go berserk", and then find a verb that can be made into a proper noun and in the mean time is also descritive of a "profession". Very hard.
Yeah, "nouning a verb" can be much tougher than "verbing a noun."
But I would think that a discussion/disseration/book about a barbarian tribe that had a berserker tradition would distinguish between their normal warrior types and the berserker subculture.
But I would think that a discussion/disseration/book about a barbarian tribe that had a berserker tradition would distinguish between their normal warrior types and the berserker subculture.
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