Yeah, not being able to see someone's post that's ignoring me is just odd. Especially when you see a post that is obviously replying to someone and you can't see what they're replying to.I've taken to opening a new private window tab of posts that seem to be complete non-sequiturs, just to see who and what someone is responding to.
Nah, you got it in one. The Red Mage is a hybrid class. Can equip better weapons and armor than a dedicated spellcaster, and generally have stuff for quicker spellcasting, plus can learn a hybrid of spells from both black and white magic, but make up for it with lower stats and not being able to get the higher end magic the specialists get.But like I said, I'm not an FF expert. Does the FF Red Mage also focus on mind/illusion spells?
Ohhhh wow interesting. I always heard FF was based on early D&D but I didn't know it was that direct!In the original Final Fantasy, the Red Mage is pretty transparently the BECMI Elf Class, the Black Mage is the standard Magic-User, and the White Mage is the Cleric. DOwn to specific weapon proficiencies and Spells.
Oh, goodness, is it ever blatant. That wasn't super-odd at the time, the whole JRPG scene, which predates Final Fantasy by a bit, was doign it.Ohhhh wow interesting. I always heard FF was based on early D&D but I didn't know it was that direct!
I never was able to get through the early FF games, but I used to love a web comic about a Black Mage comic that used screenshots, as I recall. I'd love a reflavoring of the classes along these lines, as previously mentioned when discussing Ravnica's clerics.In the original Final Fantasy, the Red Mage is pretty transparently the BECMI Elf Class, the Black Mage is the standard Magic-User, and the White Mage is the Cleric. DOwn to specific weapon proficiencies and Spells.
8-bit theater was great!I never was able to get through the early FF games, but I used to love a web comic about a Black Mage comic that used screenshots, as I recall. I'd love a reflavoring of the classes along these lines, as previously mentioned when discussing Ravnica's clerics.
Final Fantasy was based on early D&D, though it has since developed its own tropes and archetypes. However, the Red Mage is not a Bard, which is a separate job in Final Fantasy. The Bard in Final Fantasy is a straight-up support minstrel and sometime archer (FFXIV).Ohhhh wow interesting. I always heard FF was based on early D&D but I didn't know it was that direct!
Sadly, yes. I would probably prefer a "white mage" or a unarmored/lightly armored priest class. There are obviously ways to do that in 5e (e.g., Divine Soul Sorcerer, Celestial Warlock, etc.), but they are not entirely satisfying ones for the archetype. I am glad that 4e began to walk back the heavily armor cleric a little bit.Clerics are an accidentally-created class that have been a mess in in every edition and after 2E, been a borderline-OP mess. And yeah the line between them and Paladin has always been a confusing one. But I don't think D&D needs to be looking at drastic changes here, because at this point, it's become self-defining.
I don't think this is an entirely accurate reading. It's a bit revisionist, and I suspect that it's because Monte Cook was simply one of the most prominent designers who talked about the game. But Monte Cook was not the lead designer of 3e. Jonathan Tweet was the lead designer. I believe there is even an article or forum thread here on ENWorld within the past year or so where Tweet talks about the design decisions behind the 3e Cleric. I don't think that's something that can just be pinned on Cook as if he were the scapegoat of 3e's questionable design choices.The time for drastic changes was 3E, essentially, and Monte flubbed it - which is why he tried to re-write history with Arcana Unearthed (which I love, but is basically 100% an apology for 3E, or from another perspective a "What I actually wanted to do with 3E!").
Even if video game RPGs are designed mostly about combat, I think that video game designers understand that people are drawn to play certain class archetypes/playstyles and design their classes accordingly. I have been playing TTRPGs for 20 years, which is admittedly not long in the grand scheme of things, and in that time nothing has changed. There is nothing new under the sun. I have time and time again seen players - even those who have years of experience playing pen 'n' paper TTRPGs - say they "want to play a class like X___" where X is a class or archetype from a video game: e.g., "How can I play a Diablo 2/3 style Necromancer in D&D?" or "How can I play a super heavily armored warrior?" Class playstyle and fantasy is important to a lot of players.I don't think videogames are a good model to pursue with tabletop RPGs though. Videogame class divisions are serving a different purpose, a lot of the time. Thinking about classes as roles can have some value, but in the end, historically videogames have tended to divide stuff up in order to do things like force people to reroll their character a lot and spend more time playing their game, or to really simplify concepts because they were too hard for players, and obviously I think we all know any non-combat aspects of classes in videogames tend to get stripped away (slowly but surely) and replaced with more combat-oriented functionality, which again tends to point them towards narrow focuses.
The WoW specs are more akin to subclasses. You still get a lot of core class abilities and mechanics. FWIW, I don't think it's that far removed, for example, of the Eldritch Knight and Champion Fighter subclasses playing quite differently or likewise the Swashbuckler and the Arcane Trickster Rogues playing quite differently. Not every class has good subclass distinctions in D&D 5e. (I'm looking at you Wizards).WoW, for example, has like 40-ish subclasses, most of which play like entirely separate classes - I think it's quite a good example of how videogames tend to keep separating stuff out and separating stuff out.
Again, see the Starfinder Mystic, which is part priest, shaman, druid, and psion.Talking of Clerics, WoW does a kind of interesting thing, I think more naively than consciously, which is that the Paladin in WoW is basically both the D&D Cleric and the D&D Paladin, pretty clearly, but the Priest is a separate class entirely with is more like a combination of 4E's Invoker, and 3E/4E's Psion, with a bit of a Far Realm theme to the some of the Psion stuff.
Hey. They don't even get the awesome hair!.The ranger is really hurt by the underdeveloped exploration tier. Their “wilderness” skills just don’t cut it in 5E, and they need more non-spell abilities so they aren’t the Two-weapon or Bow Fighter in Studded Leather With Awesome Hair.