D&D 5E History repeating itself?

[Andor]

I play tested early 5e and liked what I saw. I'm having account trouble that's kept me from seeing the last couple of playtest packets but it seems that they are still making large scale changes and playing with basic structural elements like classes/sub-classes. And yet they've already said there will be only one more playtest packet....

I recall all too clearly the constant and obvious state of flux the 4e rules were in (As seen from the L&L articles) prior to ending development. And then they hit a prematurely announced deadline, 4e froze in mid-development inspite of the fact that they were still playing with basic concepts and they printed it and shoved it out the door. We all know what followed. Would further development have stopped the 4e split? Maybe, maybe not. It seems likely that further feedback might have showed them that the gamist approach was not endorsed by the entire fanbase and they might have stepped back.

And now I worry that history is repeating itself with 5e. To be sure it doesn't seem likely to be a fanbase destroying game the way 4e was (with all due apologies to 4e fans), but it is NOT a good sign to see something as basic as class structure still in flux with a single playtest packet left. Is WotC making the same damn mistake AGAIN by adhearing to a deadline without meeting the neccessary milestones first?

Or am I fretting over nothing?

 

[variant]

Development is not over. The only thing that is over is the public playtest. From here on is closed playtesting with handpicked testing groups. Bruce Cordell said they are half way done with all of the core game done.

 

[tuxgeo]

. . . it often does repeat itself; however, read on:

I play tested early 5e and liked what I saw. I'm having account trouble that's kept me from seeing the last couple of playtest packets but it seems that they are still making large scale changes and playing with basic structural elements like classes/sub-classes. And yet they've already said there will be only one more playtest packet... .

As I see it, "one more packet" means they have reached a point where they no longer have to ask us what shape we want the game to take.

I recall all too clearly the constant and obvious state of flux the 4e rules were in (As seen from the L&L articles) prior to ending development. And then they hit a prematurely announced deadline, 4e froze in mid-development in spite of the fact that they were still playing with basic concepts and they printed it and shoved it out the door.

< snip Edition characterizations >

And now I worry that history is repeating itself with 5e. To be sure it doesn't seem likely to be a fanbase destroying game the way 4e was (with all due apologies to 4e fans), but it is NOT a good sign to see something as basic as class structure still in flux with a single playtest packet left. Is WotC making the same damn mistake AGAIN by adhering to a deadline without meeting the necessary milestones first?

Or am I fretting over nothing?

Only time will tell. They haven't announced any publication deadline that I've seen; and Ed Greenwood has stated publicly that he thinks 5E won't come out before 2015. I don't see any premature deadline.

 

[Stormonu]

I don't think we've been given insight to the full game, so its likely the design is farther along than we've seen.

Also, while playtesting is always good, you really can't ever resolve all the issues - there's literally millions of eyes on the released game to the designer's handfuls. Likewise, 4E was a new way of doing things - there was bound to be a lot of issues just because it hadn't been done before.

Finally, and just poking fun, D&D seems to have the same curse of the Star Trek movies - every other version seems to not be recieved well.

 

[jrowland]

I suppose that's the same as the Microsoft Curse:

Windows 3.5: Good
Windows 95/98/ME: Bad
Windows XP: Good
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad

 

[Ahnehnois]

Would further development have stopped the 4e split?

No.

That said, the 5e playtest didn't look good at first blush, and the iterations I read had no direction or purpose that I could ascertain (cue snarky WotC shill remark about how I could never understand such things because their staff are actual wizards). The good news, as it were, is that there's a lot less good will for them to lose this time.

At this point, there are various D&D-like games out there with decent licenses and better mechanics. People can just check something else out, which didn't really feel like much of an option at the time 4e was announced. The only people WotC can really piss off at this point are the ones who not only play 4e but actually have some substantial investment in its mechanics and conscientiously dislike the new approach.

 

[Jester David]

I've worried about this as well, and did a big post about how WotC should stop making changes and switch to balancing.
Thankfully, that's what they're doing. Only they're doing it behind closed doors. I wish it was a little more open, of if the testers were at least not bound by as strict of NDAs (allowed to comment, not allowed to copy test).

What is worrisome is that a lot of the big systems and subsystems haven't been seen yet.

 

[the Jester]

What is worrisome is that a lot of the big systems and subsystems haven't been seen yet.

Agreed. For example, multiclassing seems to be a perfect example of the kind of system they'd want to massively stress-test.

 

[Mistwell]

I suppose that's the same as the Microsoft Curse:

Windows 3.5: Good
Windows 95/98/ME: Bad
Windows XP: Good
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad

It's a tangent, but Windows 95, and Windows 98, were both good. I agree ME was bad.

 

[DaveMage]

I'm unlikely to be a 5E customer, but those who are should really find out the intentions of the WotC brain trust (however ultimately irrelevant) what the intention is regarding the edition roll out.

How long do they anticipate the edition lasting?
Are they "holding back" anything that some might consider "core" (races, classes, etc.) for future supplements?
Is the plan to roll out an "Essentials" or 3.5 style update once the game has been out 2-3 years?
What type and frequency of adventure support will there be?

The longest WotC has stuck with any single version of D&D rules has been with 3.5 (2003-2008 - although 4E was announced in 2007).

WotC has a horrible track record with these things, so an "all-in" consumer might want to know the answers before buying in.