D&D 5E Zone spells and amazing damage potential

[Paraxis]

Jeremy Crawford just clarified that entering a zone doesn't have to be voluntary or use the creatures movement or actions. So running around the battlefield taking the Disengage action with Spirit Guardians up or use Moonbeam and sweep across the map hitting all the enemies each tun, are valid uses of the spells. I had always ruled that 'entering' had to be done on the target creatures turn not on the casters.

Relevant links, http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/03/16/spirit-guardian/ and http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/03/16/enter-area-of-effect/.

So imagine a halfling cleric in a wheelbarrow with Spirit Guardians up being pushed around by his team member on each of their turns while they take the Disengage action avoiding all attacks of opportunity.

 

[Syntallah]

Such an image certainly DOES NOT invoke my sense of heroic fantasy...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I don't see where it says that you can use Moonbeam to sweep across the map. You can move it from Zone A to Zone C, on your turn, but that doesn't necessarily hurt anyone in Zone B between them.

I mean, seriously, the light is on them for what? A fraction of a second?

 

[Tormyr]

I have a problem with this because the spell says first time it enters or starts its turn for both moonbeam and spirit guardians. This tells me that the movement side of it is dependent on the creature moving, not the spell.

Either of these spells does damage above its level if the player can cause damage by moving the effect through a bunch of enemies. A druid could turn on moonbeam and go all Gears of War Hammer of Dawn on the enemies by moving it 60 feet each turn. The other thing that pops up here is that a new casting (or moving the effect into the enemy's space) would cause double damage: once during the caster's round as they cast the spell or move the effect onto an enemy and once at the start of the enemy's turn. Either or both of these cause these 2nd and 3rd level spells to punch way above their weight in damage.

My players asked about both these spells and I told them that I would only consider the damage when the enemy entered the spell or started their turn in it. Besides which, they wouldn't want the bad guys going all Hammer of Dawn on them.

EDIT: To expand on @Saelorn's take on it. The same concept could be applied to spirit guardians. You can move the spell from one location to another, but the guardians need you to be still for a few moments to clobber someone on the noggin. This still does not solve the double damage issue (although it may not be an issue in some people's minds).

 

[Tormyr]

Such an image certainly DOES NOT invoke my sense of heroic fantasy...

It is what makes it heroic wheelbarrow racing.

 

[Uller]

Im with Jeremy on Spirit Guardians. It doesnt do that much damage and is limited to once per turn. It is an aura so it isnt like it can be done at range. If you want to move and avoid risking the spell ending then you have to sacrifice an action. It just doesnt seem that abusable. It hasnt been used at my table yet so...Moonbeam I cant comment on because I dont have the text in front of me.

 

[Uller]

This still does not solve the double damage issue (although it may not be an issue for in some people's minds).

Could the double damage issue be solved by changing the word "starts" to "ends"? To me it seems it is intended to do double damage to any character the caster chooses to end the zone on. But if you want to avoid double damage changing the word to ends would allow potential targets to choose to try to avoid taking damage twice

 

[Tormyr]

Im with Jerry on Spirit Guardians. It doesnt do that much damage and is limited to once per turn. It is an aura so it isnt like it can be done at range. If you want to move and avoid risking the spell ending then you have to sacrifice an action. It just doesnt seem that abusable. It hasnt been used at my table yet so...Moonbeam I cant comment on because I dont have the text in front of me.

The text is the same for both spells with regards to when it does damage. Using the DMG guidelines for adjudicating damage on AoE, a 15' radius hits 3 creatures. Many/most PC races have a 30' movement. On a subsequent turn, the creature could move 60 feet with a Dash. A 15' radius covers about 78.5 square feet. So there is one character hit for every 25 square feet. A 60' Dash adds another 900 square feet or 36 enemies, multiplying the power of the spell by 13. So 3d8 * 3 damage for a basic use vs. 3d8 * 39 for a use with Dash.

Or the creature could use the Disengage action. That would add 450 square feet or 18 enemies to the original 3. 3d8 * 21 damage with save for half damage. Or someone could cast Haste on the spell caster. 60 feet with Disengage on the turn it is cast and 120 feet with Disengage and Dash on subsequent turns.

All of these scenarios are "what ifs", very much white room looks at the numbers, and would require concentration to keep up, but our war cleric with high Con and the war caster feat regularly pulled off his concentration checks. If he had not moved and thus left our group, hew was also going to add the Resilient feat.

I forget how much the DMG suggests as damage for a 3rd level spell, but I am pretty sure that it is not 61d8 and higher.

 

[Tormyr]

I would need to check, but I think Jeremy's ruling would also cause Cloudkill to cause double damage as it moves.

 

[Paraxis]

Aarakocra cleric with spirit guardians up flying 15' above the ground strafing using the Dash action. That is 100' of movement each round without worrying about opportunity attacks.