D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[Flamestrike]

Warforged (+2 Con, +1 Int) Battlesmith Artificer 6
S: 10, D:10, Con: 16, Int: 16, Wis: 14, Cha: 8
HP: 51, AC: 19 (Half plate +1, Integrated protection)
Move: 20' InIt +5, Passive perception 15
Saves: Con +6, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha -1
Skills: Athletics +3, Arcana +6, Investigation +6, Perception +5, Insight +5
Tools: Thieves tools, Smiths tools, Tinker tools, Woocrafting tools, Alchemy kit, Tailors tools (all +9)
Feats: Alert
Infusions: Dazzling weapon, Enhanced Defence, Spell refuelling ring, Bag of holding, Enhanced offence, Reloading weapon
Cantrips: Mending, Light
Spells: Shield, Heroism, Cure wounds, Absorb elements, Detect Magic (R), Heat metal, Levitate, Branding smite, Warding bond, Invisibility (Slots 4/2)
Gear: +1 Half plate, +1 reloading pistol, +1 Dazzling Greatsword, tools.
Attack: 2 x Greatsword attacks +7, 2d6+4 damage (and blinding) plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)
Ranged: 2 x Pistol attacks, +7, 1d10+4 damage, plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)

It's him plus his Steel Guardian.

@Zardnaar please post your 6th level Paladin stats, and we can see how the two fair against each other. You can have whatever PHB items you want.

They're 20' away from each other, my Guardian is in the square in front of me. Well lit 30 x 30' room with a 20' ceiling.

 

[Zardnaar]

Warforged (+2 Con, +1 Int) Battlesmith Artificer 6
S: 10, D:10, Con: 16, Int: 16, Wis: 14, Cha: 8
HP: 51, AC: 19 (Half plate +1, Integrated protection)
Move: 20' InIt +0, Passive perception 15
Saves: Con +6, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha -1
Skills: Athletics +3, Arcana +6, Investigation +6, Perception +5, Insight +5
Tools: Thieves tools, Smiths tools, Tinker tools, Woocrafting tools, Alchemy kit, Tailors tools (all +9)
Feats: Great weapon master
Infusions: Dazzling weapon, Enhanced Defence, Spell refuelling ring, Bag of holding, Enhanced offence, Reloading weapon
Cantrips: Mending, Light
Spells: Shield, Heroism, Cure wounds, Absorb elements, Detect Magic (R), Heat metal, Levitate, Branding smite, Warding bond, Invisibility (Slots 4/2)
Gear: +1 Half plate, +1 reloading pistol, +1 Dazzling Greatsword, tools.
Attack: 2 x Greatsword attacks +7, 2d6+4 damage (and blinding) plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)
Ranged: 2 x Pistol attacks, +7, 1d10+4 damage, plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)

It's him plus his Steel Guardian.

@Zardnaar please post your 6th level Paladin stats, and we can see how the two fair against each other. You can have whatever PHB items you want.

They're 20' away from each other, my Guardian is in the square in front of me. Well lit 30 x 30' room with a 20' ceiling.

Players using a sword and board vuman.

Feats also optional. You're saying you need them for artificer to work?

Personally I would probably build something similar with two handed weapon.

 

[ccs]

Weird. The detractors are speaking from a theoretical position, and then the supporters are as well because THE CLASS IS NEW and here you're deriding just one side of that debate for being theoretical?

Have you played the class? If not, does your opinion mean nothing because it's not actually played?

I'm neither a supporter nor a detractor of the class. Nor am I deriding it. I simply feel that judging a class (any class) as good/bad based on a state of play that's hardly ever achieved isn't particularly helpful.

 

[Flamestrike]

Players using a sword and board vuman.

OK then, fine.

Vuman (+1 Con, +1 Int) Battlesmith Artificer 6
S: 8, D:10, Con: 16, Int: 16, Wis: 14, Cha: 8
HP: 51, AC: 21 (Half plate +1, Shield +1)
Move: 20' InIt +5, Passive perception 15
Saves: Con +6, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha -1
Skills: Athletics +2, Arcana +6, Investigation +6, Perception +5, Insight +5
Tools: Thieves tools, Smiths tools, Tinker tools, Woocrafting tools, Alchemy kit, (all +9)
Feats: Alert, Warcaster
Infusions: Dazzling weapon, Enhanced Defence, Spell refuelling ring, Bag of holding, Enhanced offence, Reloading weapon
Cantrips: Mending, Firebolt
Spells: Shield, Heroism, Cure wounds, Absorb elements, Detect Magic (R), Heat metal, Levitate, Branding smite, Warding bond, Invisibility (Slots 4/2)
Gear: +1 Half plate, +1 shield,+1 Dazzling Longsword, tools.
Attack: 2 x Long sword attacks +7, 1d8+4 damage (and blinding) plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)
Ranged: Firebolt, + 6, 2d10 fire damage, plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)

It's him plus his Steel Guardian.

@Zardnaar NOW please post your 6th level Paladin stats, and we can see how the two fair against each other. You can have whatever PHB items you want.

They're 20' away from each other, my Guardian is in the square in front of me. Well lit 30 x 30' room with a 20' ceiling.

 

[Zardnaar]

OK then, fine.

Vuman (+1 Con, +1 Int) Battlesmith Artificer 6
S: 8, D:10, Con: 16, Int: 16, Wis: 14, Cha: 8
HP: 51, AC: 21 (Half plate +1, Shield +1)
Move: 20' InIt +5, Passive perception 15
Saves: Con +6, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha -1
Skills: Athletics +2, Arcana +6, Investigation +6, Perception +5, Insight +5
Tools: Thieves tools, Smiths tools, Tinker tools, Woocrafting tools, Alchemy kit, (all +9)
Feats: Alert, Warcaster
Infusions: Dazzling weapon, Enhanced Defence, Spell refuelling ring, Bag of holding, Enhanced offence, Reloading weapon
Cantrips: Mending, Firebolt
Spells: Shield, Heroism, Cure wounds, Absorb elements, Detect Magic (R), Heat metal, Levitate, Branding smite, Warding bond, Invisibility (Slots 4/2)
Gear: +1 Half plate, +1 shield,+1 Dazzling Longsword, tools.
Attack: 2 x Long sword attacks +7, 1d8+4 damage (and blinding) plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)
Ranged: Firebolt, + 6, 2d10 fire damage, plus Steel Defender rend (+6, 1d8+3 force)

It's him plus his Steel Guardian.

@Zardnaar NOW please post your 6th level Paladin stats, and we can see how the two fair against each other. You can have whatever PHB items you want.

They're 20' away from each other, my Guardian is in the square in front of me. Well lit 30 x 30' room with a 20' ceiling.

I don't have a specific build just there's also a Paladin in the party. Sword and board, idk his exact stats build etc.

I'm using real players, decent guys not powergamers in the same party both using sword and board.

Real life stuff not white room theory craft builds.

 

[Flamestrike]

I don't have a specific build just there's also a Paladin in the party. Sword and board, idk his exact stats build etc.

Arent you the DM?

I'm using real players, decent guys not powergamers in the same party both using sword and board.

Real life stuff not white room theory craft builds.

Yet you also said above, it was built correctly.

Which is it, you a) dont know the build, or b) it's built correctly?

 

[NaturalZero]

One thing that throws off perception of damage is nova vs. sustained damage. The paladin can certainly have great spikes of damage with smite, but at 6th level you only have 2 level 2 slots per day, and a level 3d8 smite is really the only thing that will outshine the steel defender's at-will attack. The paladin can certainly have better rounds of damage than the artificer by throwing out 2 smites, but an on-demand bonus action attack every single round will out pace the paladin over the course of the day.

 

[Flamestrike]

One thing that throws off perception of damage is nova vs. sustained damage. The paladin can certainly have great spikes of damage with smite, but at 6th level you only have 2 level 2 slots per day, and a level 3d8 smite is really the only thing that will outshine the steel defender's at-will attack. The paladin can certainly have better rounds of damage than the artificer by throwing out 2 smites, but an on-demand bonus action attack every single round will out pace the paladin over the course of the day.

Plus the artificer will almost certainly have the better AC with easy access to +1 Shields and Armor via infusions (if the DM doesnt give him downtime to simply make them himself).

Battlesmiths also have access to Shield, plus there is the reaction from the Steel Defender that imposes disadvantage.

 

[Flamestrike]

I have a terrible feeling that our S+B Artificer has taken the Shield Master feat, and is likely trying to shove all the time with his bonus action instead of telling his pet what to do.

@Zardnaar can you confirm?

 

[Zardnaar]

Plus the artificer will almost certainly have the better AC with easy access to +1 Shields and Armor via infusions (if the DM doesnt give him downtime to simply make them himself).

Battlesmiths also have access to Shield, plus there is the reaction from the Steel Defender that imposes disadvantage.

Can't cast shield using sword and board.

For above post I know roughly what he has not the exact numbers, stats, feats etc. 6 person group o don't recall each players exact build and stats.