D&D General Maybe I was ALWAYs playing 4e... even in 2e

[Crimson Longinus]

okay so why can they run, swim, climb, jump, do research, swing a sword and shoot a bow at 100% at 2 hp?

because if you give me a paper cut or a muscle cramp I am not at 100%. I know plenty (both friend and family) in military branches and they all agree even a minor injury or pain like a headache can DRASTICLY decrease your response time and effectiveness... but in D&D a 180hp 20th level fighter down to 2hp (so 178pt of damage) is still firing on all cylinders and 100% fine for all activities.

Because they're big damn action heroes running on adrenaline. They're far from fine, but in crucial moments (the ones we roll dice for) they can still push themselves to perform like Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

even that... if you have 4 characters 1 has 100hp 1 has 60hp 2 have 40hp if hp=meat does that mean the guy with 100hp is tiwce the size of the other

No. And HP is not just meat, but all HP contains meat. HP also measures skill and fate, but it is not that some HP are skill and some are meat, it is that all of them have all these things. The epicenes of higher level characters helps them to defend themselves, meaning that the attacks that would have felled a lesser hero may cause mere scotches to them. But they're still hurt.

but again... how you describe your character taking a 32pt crit from the bite of a dragon can be VERY different then how someone at the same table explains a 32pt crit from the bit of the same dragon... but if you both had 33 or more hp before that crit you are BOTH still running at 100% until you drop to 0.

Yes. A character who had total 34 HP is probably quite a bit more seriously injured than the more epic one who had total HP of 120. But they both are still injured.

HP already do no make sense. They don't make sense as meat, or injuries or anything else... they are a game concept not a real one. they are just your plot armor.

I agree that HP doesn't make much sense. I just feel that your interpretation makes it to make even less sense.

okay, so if they are injuries why do those injuries not impede you in any way shape or form?

Already answered.


I am not suggesting that HP is particularly coherent system, it definitely isn't. but I still don't want to make it more disassociated than necessary. To me fuzzily associated is way better than completely disassociated. I don't usually want to describe gruesomely detailed injuries anyway and be gross like Role Master, so fuzzily associated injuryometer works well enough most of the time.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Because they're big damn action heroes running on adrenaline. They're far from fine, but in crucial moments (the ones we roll dice for) they can still push themselves to perform like Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

so you have your own house rule to justfy... okay so what makes that diffrent?

No. And HP is not just meat, but all HP contains meat.

so how much meat damage does psychic or necrotic do?

But they're still hurt.

I just letthe fluff go to the PC

Yes. A character who had total 34 HP is probably quite a bit more seriously injured than the more epic one who had total HP of 120. But they both are still injured.

why?

I agree that HP doesn't make much sense. I just feel that your interpretation makes it to make even less sense.

and I think drawing some arbatrary line and saying "all this that makes no sense is fine...but take one step over and it is wrong" makes no semes

I am not suggesting that HP is particularly coherent system, it definitely isn't. but I still don't want to make it more disassociated than necessary.

so you introduce your own ideas... okay that fine at your table but you just spent pages argueing in my thread about how I always played in the way I am now and that no one ever cared about it.

 

[Composer99]

But the character doesn't know they're missing HP! How can you completely dismiss the perspective of the character, inhabiting it is the whole bloody point of playing a roleplaying game!

If you, personally, feel that "inhabiting [a character] is the whole bloody point of playing a roleplaying game", well and good for you. If you are insisting that such a thing is true for everyone, you are entirely mistaken. This is a game, not method acting. The important people are the ones sitting down with you playing the game, not their make-believe pawns. If folks want to put lots of work into investing their make-believe pawns with personality and life (as it were), and also want to deeply immerse themselves in their characters to the point where they have to reconcile how hit points work as a game mechanic with how they are apparent in the fiction, more power to them, but it is simply wrong to insist that's what RPGs are all about for everyone.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The important people are the ones sitting down with you playing the game, not their make-believe pawns. .

agin something I thought day 1 and something I think 4e and 5e both bring out more

If folks want to put lots of work into investing their make-believe pawns with personality and life (as it were), and also want to deeply immerse themselves in their characters to the point where they have to reconcile how hit points work as a game mechanic with how they are apparent in the fiction, more power to them, but it is simply wrong to insist that's what RPGs are all about for everyone.

that is what I have been saying... I played a character once that I always described as "dashing, almost shinning with a winning smile and hair that looks like I just stepped out of hair and make up on a movie set" and that included when I got brought to 0hp...
we even joked "how does he look that good getting eaten alive?"

 

[Crimson Longinus]

so you have your own house rule to justfy... okay so what makes that diffrent?

There is no houserule. It is fictional explanation for the game rules.

so how much meat damage does psychic or necrotic do?

Some. It is actual damage, as you can die of it and it can be healed by healing magic and potions.

I just letthe fluff go to the PC

I don't understand what you mean by this.

why?

Because they sustained piercing damage from the dragon's bite. Why else would the cleric cast a healing spell on them?

and I think drawing some arbatrary line and saying "all this that makes no sense is fine...but take one step over and it is wrong" makes no semes

Generally I feel that all else being equal, mechanics making more sense than less sense if preferable. I wouldn't imagine that this is a controversial position, but perhaps it is?

so you introduce your own ideas... okay that fine at your table but you just spent pages argueing in my thread about how I always played in the way I am now and that no one ever cared about it.

I don't understand why you would engage with mechanics that do not inform fiction, but you do you.

 

[James Gasik]

I don't often describe player wounds, because that would actually be detrimental to verisimilitude- one member of my playgroup is an EMT and while he's generally a great guy, he sometimes takes issue with attempts to model specific injuries, because he knows exactly what those injuries would do to a real human.

He's perfectly fine with abstract hit points, however, as thanks to the video game industry being inspired by D&D, everyone is familiar with the concept of a "health bar". When we discussed this, the term we agreed upon for what hit points mean is "drive", the sum total of your character's ability to finish the fight. When you run out of drive, you slip into shock/unconsciousness and need to be roused from this state by drugs/magic.

Blessings from the gods or screams of inspiration from your commander can restore drive, as can drinking some "liquid courage" (healing potion) or taking a moment to pause and catch your breath (second wind).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If you, personally, feel that "inhabiting [a character] is the whole bloody point of playing a roleplaying game", well and good for you. If you are insisting that such a thing is true for everyone, you are entirely mistaken. This is a game, not method acting. The important people are the ones sitting down with you playing the game, not their make-believe pawns. If folks want to put lots of work into investing their make-believe pawns with personality and life (as it were), and also want to deeply immerse themselves in their characters to the point where they have to reconcile how hit points work as a game mechanic with how they are apparent in the fiction, more power to them, but it is simply wrong to insist that's what RPGs are all about for everyone.

Well, one would expect at least some rudimentary form of roleplaying being a goal in a roleplaying game, but I'm not a gaming police.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

There is no houserule. It is fictional explanation for the game rules.

so what do you think I am doing?

Some. It is actual damage, as you can die of it and it can be healed by healing magic and potions.

and how much and how is ti?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I don't often describe player wounds, because that would actually be detrimental to verisimilitude- one member of my playgroup is an EMT and while he's generally a great guy, he sometimes takes issue with attempts to model specific injuries, because he knows exactly what those injuries would do to a real human.

yup... there is no way to have them make sense if you have any idea how little damage can effect the human body (again a normal person with a pulled muscle and/or headache would give you more problems then 100pts of damage then a person with 120hp will ever have)

He's perfectly fine with abstract hit points, however, as thanks to the video game industry being inspired by D&D, everyone is familiar with the concept of a "health bar". When we discussed this, the term we agreed upon for what hit points mean is "drive", the sum total of your character's ability to finish the fight. When you run out of drive, you slip into shock/unconsciousness and need to be roused from this state by drugs/magic.

Blessings from the gods or screams of inspiration from your commander can restore drive, as can drinking some "liquid courage" (healing potion) or taking a moment to pause and catch your breath (second wind).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

so what do you think I am doing?

Arguing that fictional explanations are not needed and that the rules don't need to make sense.

and how much and how is ti?

It's not really terribly important. But that is vaguely related to the portion of the character's HP being lost.