D&D Movie/TV D&D: Honor Among Thieves Open Discussion [Full Spoilers]

[Mirrorrorrim]

Since this is waaaaay off topic, I'll put my response in a spoiler block.

Spoiler

The adventures themselves are fine, and I have no issue with non-European fantasy. The issue is that some of the fashions portrayed in the artwork are just far too modern for my taste. Old lady gnomes wearing sensible heels, farmers in patchwork blue jeans, and ladies in Mardi Gras party dresses do not fit my idea of D&D. They'd be fine in a d20 modern sort of game but not one with the D&D logo on it. If I ever get to run those adventures, I intend to ignore the art.

I understand enjoying low-magic, dangerous cities where the leaders care little for the populous. Some places in the Forgotten Realms are like that.

The thing that makes so many places in D&D worlds different than "Medieval Earth" is literally magic. Elves and other long-lived races who have magic in their blood are part of the fabric of every community. A dwarven builder can bring their expertise to bear a LOT in 50 years time. And they can live for hundreds of years. Communities are also pan-species, so you'll see art and beauty from some peoples mixed with the solid form and function of others. There is nothing special about denim blue jeans, rubber or other natural materials harvested from plants, or flowery dresses crafted by gnomes or elves who are literal magic. So many D&D peoples care about art, beauty, and craftsmanship. They've had magic for literally thousands of years. Look what Earth humans have done in 200 years. I'm surprised they aren't more advanced, but I chalk it up to slightly different physics, and that magic makes it less necessary to have to innovate. Heck, summoned creatures and magical automatons are a thing. Common enough for some to be low-level and can't be that expensive to manage or make.

On topic, I believe Neverwinter in the D&D movie is a WONDERFUL depiction of a D&D fantasy city, with magic and beauty, form and function. It would make less sense to me if such a city was filled with pitiful squalor. Filthy "medieval" cities make sense in the right environments, like in backwaters or dangerous frontiers that need rebuilding every other year from monstrous raids, but not in a "civilized" magical realm who knows that gods are many and real and teach that there are consequences to their actions, good and bad.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

So the music over the closing credits is "Wings of Time" by Tame Impala. It contains the repeated line "We did it right this time". Anyone else think this is a "take that" gesture to the previous D&D movies?

Y'know what my biggest problem with it was? At no point does anyone say the line, "There is no honor among thieves"! Sheesh, people.

Art by Darlene from the 1e DMG, to clarify the significance.

Does anyone else recall that "Honor Among Thieves" was a theme of the original D&D movie in 2000? Ridley and Snails mentioned it several times. I agree that the song "Wings of Time," and even the title of the movie "Honor Among Thieves", were subtle nods.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

On topic, I believe Neverwinter in the D&D movie is a WONDERFUL depiction of a D&D fantasy city, with magic and beauty, form and function. It would make less sense to me if such a city was filled with pitiful squalor. Filthy "medieval" cities make sense in the right environments, like in backwaters or dangerous frontiers that need rebuilding every other year from monstrous raids, but not in a "civilized" magical realm who knows that gods are many and real and teach that there are consequences to their actions, good and bad.

And from a branding standpoint, there's not much point in trying to out-squalor Game of Thrones or the Witcher. Being an overall happier place is a great way to differentiate D&D, even if some (many?) home games are less magical and happy than what was depicted on screen.

 

[Parmandur]

And from a branding standpoint, there's not much point in trying to out-squalor Game of Thrones or the Witcher. Being an overall happier place is a great way to differentiate D&D, even if some (many?) home games are less magical and happy than what was depicted on screen.

I mean, the tone seems appropriately Greenwoodian to me: FR in AD&D was not a grimy and dark place.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I mean, the tone seems appropriately Greenwoodian to me: FR in AD&D was not a grimy and dark place.

At least, not non-consensually.

 

[pukunui]

I never said anything about grime or squalor but never mind. This is an aesthetic thing, one about which I am clearly in the minority.

 

[Aellic Mornbringer]

So the music over the closing credits is "Wings of Time" by Tame Impala. It contains the repeated line "We did it right this time". Anyone else think this is a "take that" gesture to the previous D&D movies?

Y'know what my biggest problem with it was? At no point does anyone say the line, "There is no honor among thieves"! Sheesh, people.

Art by Darlene from the 1e DMG, to clarify the significance.

A harsh but fair criticism. nods sagely

 

[Hussar]

I said this before earlier in the thread but I actually found it really refreshing that the scene wasn’t covered in browns. Yes, fair enough, historical cities would be incredibly squalid by todays standards. Open sewers, piles of dung everywhere both human and animal. So on and so forth.

But I’ve seen that a billion times. Magic city gets to look more like Oz than Gondor for a change? Sign me up please.

 

[JohnSnow]

Regarding the 5e time period portrayal of the Forgotten Realms (and Waterdeep in particular), I have something to add.

You see, my group got hired by WotC to perform as actors and swordfighters at the Stream of Many Eyes liveplay event Wizards did back in 2018. It was a blast, but when they first approached us, they said they wanted “actors in Victorian costuming to provide ambiance” at the event. Our director informed them that we’d be happy to do it, but that not all of us had Victorian clothes, but some of us did, if that’s what they wanted.

They got back to us and said that what they liked was the look of our group as shown on our website. Which was us in our late 16th-century costumes (Elizabethan, not Victorian). We were like: “Yeah, that we can do. No problem.”

When the day came, and I got to the Stream of Many Eyes, I ended up randomly sharing a dressing room with Ed Greenwood, who was there to play Elminster, ridiculous hat and all. Ed immediately recognized my garb as Elizabethan (which he loved!) and we had a pleasant conversation about historical costuming (and other stuff, but that’s a different story).

The point of this anecdote is that while Ed’s vision of the Realms is kinda Robin Hood crossed with Elizabethan (12th to 16th-century), the general WotC grasp of different historical eras is…not 100% complete. FWIW.

 

[Hussar]

I’ll admit, I’d probably not know if something was Elizabethan or Victorian.

And if you move into another culture, like say the difference between 18th century and 16th century clothes in India, I’d pretty much just take your word for it.

Then again it’s funny when you have Samurai using a katana standing beside a fighter from the Crusades.

Otoh I get picky about ships, so we’ve all got our things.