D&D Movie/TV Free 'Honor Among Thieves' Bundle Includes Characters & Magic Items From The Movie

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Over at D&D Beyond you can check out the game details of the protagonists (plus major NPCs) of the D&D movie, along with the statistics of a number of magical items from the film.
  • Thieves Gallery -- this contains stats for Doric, Edgin, Forge, Holga, Simon, Sofina, and Xenk. These are NPC-style stat blocks, not full character sheets.
  • Legendary Magic Items -- stats for the helm of disjunction, hither-thither staff, helm of beckoning death, red wizard blade, and the tablet of reawakening.

In addition, WotC's Chris Perkins talks about the magic items in the video below.


Have any of you considered the items for your campaigns?
 
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Eyes of Nine

Everything's Fine
I really liked that instead of updating all the player character facing rules, they released every character as an NPC stat block. Solves all the nit-picking "But a druid can't be an owlbear?!?!" Well, using custom monster generating rules, sure they can... However, I'm definitely side-eyeing the CR on the party characters. Haven't reviewed and done the math, but the CR seems a bit low for the Holga/Edgin/etc group? And CR10 actually feels a bit high for Sofina
 

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ad_hoc

(they/them)
I really liked that instead of updating all the player character facing rules, they released every character as an NPC stat block. Solves all the nit-picking "But a druid can't be an owlbear?!?!" Well, using custom monster generating rules, sure they can... However, I'm definitely side-eyeing the CR on the party characters. Haven't reviewed and done the math, but the CR seems a bit low for the Holga/Edgin/etc group? And CR10 actually feels a bit high for Sofina

CR feels right to me at first glance.

Doric is a bit low though as she can turn into an Owlbear 5 times during a fight.

CR 10 would be very low, just doubled checked and she is CR 15. She does have level 9 spells.

CR isn't what a party of level X can defeat so I don't see an issue with this.

They are each around level 9 and 4 of them plus a 5th lower level character took her out. Seems about right.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
IIRC Holga has three attacks at +7 for 10 damage each, total 30. Edgin has two attacks at +6 for IIRC 16-17 damage each, total 34ish. Simon has three attacks at +6 for 15ish damage each, total 45ish.

This is not reflective of the movie Holga/Edgin/Simon, wherein Holga and Owlbear-Doric are the big damage dealers of the group. Do you disagree? If so, explain.

You're discounting the to hit chance which makes a HUGE difference.

In melee against an AC of 16 (average AC for CR 9 and we have to pick some base AC):

Holga attacks with advantage (reckless) so has an 84% chance to hit. She's doing 8.4 (10 x .84) damage per attack so 25.2 total (discounting crits which would add around around 1.75)

Edgin has a 55% chance to hit AC 16(with a short sword only 50% with the lute). He's doing 9.35 (17 x .55) damage per attack so 18.77 pretty round total.

Simon has 35% chance to hit AC 16. he's doing 4.9 (14 x .35) damage per attack so 14.7 per round.

Holga is actually doing the most damage in melee. She suffers at range, but such is the fate of most barbarians.

I will say adding the extra damage to Edgin and Simon seems some kind of (to me unnecessary) balancing trick, I actually don't agree with it.
 
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NotAYakk

Legend
I'd rewrite the blade:

---

Red Wizard Blade
Weapon (Dagger), Legendary

Forged by Red Wizards using a secret process known only to them, this grim steel dagger draws its power from the Negative Plane. The first time on a turn you hit a specific creature with a melee attack using this magic dagger, the target takes an extra 3d12 necrotic damage, and you gain an equal amount of temporary HP. This dagger can act as a magical focus. If you use it as a magical focus to cast a necromancy spell, you can make a single melee weapon attack with this dagger as a bonus action before or after the spell effect occurs.

A creature reduced to 0 hit points by this weapon dies and can’t be raised from the dead except by a deity's direct action or the tablet of reawakening.


---

That now is a weapon for spellcasters, especially necromancers. It is no longer a fighter weapon.
 

You're discounting the to hit chance which makes a HUGE difference.

In melee against an AC of 16 (average AC for CR 9 and we have to pick some base AC):

Holga attacks with advantage (reckless) so has an 84% chance to hit. She's doing 8.4 (10 x .84) damage per attack so 25.2 total (discounting crits which would add around around 1.75)

Edgin has a 55% chance to hit AC 16(with a short sword only 50% with the lute). He's doing 9.35 (17 x .55) damage per attack so 18.77 pretty round total.

Simon has 35% chance to hit AC 16. he's doing 4.9 (14 x .35) damage per attack so 14.7 per round.

Holga is actually doing the most damage in melee. She suffers at range, but such is the fate of most barbarians.

I will say adding the extra damage to Edgin and Simon seems some kind of (to me unnecessary) balancing trick, I actually don't agree with it.
It looks like you forgot that Simon can Chaos Bolt, and apparently misread Edgin's damage as 9.35 somehow rather than d6+2d10+3 (17.5). I'm not trying to be snide or "win an argument", but in a discussion about numbers, having the right numbers matters so I'll redo the numbers.

I am not counting Reckless because without Rage it's even more suicidal than normal. (See below for Reckless attack and defense numbers.)

Therefore WotC Holga (3x +7 for d12+4) vs. AC 16 hits on 9 or higher, doing 0.65 * 3d12 + 0.6 * 12 (19.875) damage per round.

WotC Edgin (2x +6 for d6+3+2d10) vs. AC 16 hits on a 10 or higher, doing 0.6 * (4d10+2d6) + 0.55 * 6 (20.7) damage per round.

WotC Simon (3x +6 for 2d10+3) vs. AC 16 hits on a 10 or higher, doing 0.6 * 6d10 + 0.55 * 9 (24.75) damage per round.

Holga has the lowest damage of the three!

If Holga did attack recklessly, she'd bring her damage up to 0.9375 * 3d12 + 0.84 * 12 (28.36), barely outdamaging Simon while simultaneously making herself the squishy of the party. She'd take 28.9/120 (24% of her HP, lasting about 4 rounds) every round against 6 CR 1/8 Guards, whereas e.g. Simon would only take 14.55/99 (15% of his HP, lasting about 7 rounds).

In the scene with Holga tanking the guards ("Are you sure I can't help?" "I'm sure." "You don't have to sound so certain.") it's absurd to have Holga go down before Simon would have if he'd stayed. That's why I don't count Reckless--and even with Reckless, the bigger point is that Holga isn't supposed to barely outdamage Edgin and Simon. She's supposed to blow them out of the water to the extent that she makes them look like noncombatants. At least, if you want characters who match the movie.
 
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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I'd rewrite the blade:

---

Red Wizard Blade
Weapon (Dagger), Legendary

Forged by Red Wizards using a secret process known only to them, this grim steel dagger draws its power from the Negative Plane. The first time on a turn you hit a specific creature with a melee attack using this magic dagger, the target takes an extra 3d12 necrotic damage, and you gain an equal amount of temporary HP. This dagger can act as a magical focus. If you use it as a magical focus to cast a necromancy spell, you can make a single melee weapon attack with this dagger as a bonus action before or after the spell effect occurs.

A creature reduced to 0 hit points by this weapon dies and can’t be raised from the dead except by a deity's direct action or the tablet of reawakening.


---

That now is a weapon for spellcasters, especially necromancers. It is no longer a fighter weapon.
I'd go further and drop the necrotic damage entirely. No wizard should be using it in melee. Make it something you stick into a dead body, however they die, to prevent the body from being resurrected.

This is a DM tool to kill off NPCs. It doesn't need to be a dagger-sized reskinned Flametongue to fulfill that purpose.

I do like it working as a magical or divine focus, though. Weird creeps like Sofina should want to be toting these around.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
I'd go further and drop the necrotic damage entirely. No wizard should be using it in melee. Make it something you stick into a dead body, however they die, to prevent the body from being resurrected.

This is a DM tool to kill off NPCs. It doesn't need to be a dagger-sized reskinned Flametongue to fulfill that purpose.

I do like it working as a magical or divine focus, though. Weird creeps like Sofina should want to be toting these around.
I want it to make sense for this NPC to use it in a fight.

If it does no damage, you wouldn't bother stabbing a PC with it. And the NPC should be mainly casting spells. And it should credibly be the killing blow on a tough PC, so it can't do trivial damage.

The goal is to make an item that drives story via mechanics in a fight. A dagger you use after someone is dead does not serve.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
It looks like you forgot that Simon can Chaos Bolt, and apparently misread Edgin's damage as 9.35 somehow rather than d6+2d10+3 (17.5). I'm not trying to be snide or "win an argument", but in a discussion about numbers, having the right numbers matters so I'll redo the numbers.
Chaos bolt is at disadvantage in melee (it's a ranged attack), so in melee, Simon is worse.

Edgin has that add on, but he's hitting a lot less than Holga that's where it gets lower.

But sure, it's not lower enough considering what it's modeling.

Those add on damages for Simon and Edgin are no necessary.

I am not counting Reckless because without Rage it's even more suicidal than normal. (See below for Reckless attack and defense numbers.)
She get's hit A LOT in the movie - they make a point of showing it. So she's clearly going reckless all the time.

The problem is, for some reason, they didn't include the barbarians signature rage ability?!?

With that, reckless is worth it. Without, it's suicidal. That to me, makes little sense!

Therefore WotC Holga (3x +7 for d12+4) vs. AC 16 hits on 9 or higher, doing 0.65 * 3d12 + 0.6 * 12 (19.875) damage per round.

WotC Edgin (2x +6 for d6+3+2d10) vs. AC 16 hits on a 10 or higher, doing 0.6 * (4d10+2d6) + 0.55 * 6 (20.7) damage per round.

WotC Simon (3x +6 for 2d10+3) vs. AC 16 hits on a 10 or higher, doing 0.6 * 6d10 + 0.55 * 9 (24.75) damage per round.

Holga has the lowest damage of the three!
Chaos bolt is ranged. If he uses it in melee, it's at disadvantage - that drops Simon's numbers significantly.

If Holga did attack recklessly, she'd bring her damage up to 0.9375 * 3d12 + 0.84 * 12 (28.36), barely outdamaging Simon while simultaneously making herself the squishy of the party. She'd take 28.9/120 (24% of her HP, lasting about 4 rounds) every round against 6 CR 1/8 Guards, whereas e.g. Simon would only take 14.55/99 (15% of his HP, lasting about 7 rounds).

In the scene with Holga tanking the guards ("Are you sure I can't help?" "I'm sure." "You don't have to sound so certain.") it's absurd to have Holga go down before Simon would have if he'd stayed. That's why I don't count Reckless--and even with Reckless, the bigger point is that Holga isn't supposed to barely outdamage Edgin and Simon. She's supposed to blow them out of the water to the extent that she makes them look like noncombatants. At least, if you want characters who match the movie.

Again, the true problem is that Holga does not include a rage ability - THAT makes no sense. It would totally fit the movie AND it would play by the rules.

Well, that and the fact that she's the only one (Doric doesn't get it either but we're not talking about her here) that doesn't get a large amount of extra damage, basically out of nowhere. Which doesn't fit the movie even. Again, I think it's an odd attempt at unnecessary balance.
 


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