D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[Ashrym]

It's not just action economy. It's that with the CONCENTRATION economy, blocking you from most of their other combat spells. The fact that subclasses built around spending their bonus action every round already (say, Horizon Walker and Beastmaster), get particularly screwed over is just icing on the cake.

Concentration choices are also something every spell caster deals with. Again, this is demonstrating the expectation that hunter's mark always be on. It doesn't have to always be on.

If it has to be their class feature, you'd imagine it should work with the rest of their class features, yeah. A Barbarian is not prevented from Reckless Attacking if they Rage, sort of a deal.

False equivalent, but rage also isn't always on and can be lost. It's chosen to be used by the player at times and not always there.

Spellcasting is also a class feature. The player, in choosing to use a different spell that needs concentration, is using their class feature. The same as any bard, wizard, or sorcerer who has to give up concentrating on a spell for another spell.

I'd argue that the mage hand spell is an example of a single spell being of specific importance to arcane tricksters but just because it is doesn't mean the rest of the class or subclass features don't exist, and it's similarly using that bonus action we were discussing even though steady aim and cunning action also both compete with that bonus action.

Abilities competing for bonus actions or concentration aren't some unique detriment to rangers. They are part of the game for everyone.

If 90%+ of play happens at levels that are not in that range, then yes, we can.

No, we can't. That part of the game exists whether you want to ignore it and those players or not. GG

It might not exist for you at your table but the game doesn't exist specifically for you at your table. ;-)

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Concentration choices are also something every spell caster deals with.

Yes, but the other casters' spell list isn't 90% concentration spells only. Let me just Zeph... oh. Let me just Ensnaring... oh never mind.

2024 at least made archers have something they could spend their slots on with Hail of Thorns becoming concentration-free (and no, it's not a great option). If they'd bothered to do that for the other low-level spells, Ranger would be in a better spot, instead of waiting until Conjure Barrage to be able to cast something else in combat.

As it is, forced Hunter's Mark is in direct opposition to Rangers being a caster (of anything other than HM). This should not be hard to see, given it's been the main problem of Ranger for 10 years, and now WotC only made it worse.

Again, this is demonstrating the expectation that hunter's mark always be on. It doesn't have to always be on.

Yes, the player should be able to choose. I'm cool with letting people who want nothing other than do basic attacks and spam HM pick that, let me pick some free Goodberries instead.

I'd argue that the mage hand spell is an example of a single spell being of specific importance to arcane tricksters

It's actually a good example of a bad feature being promoted so much, that some people start to think it is important to the class. Having dextrous telekinesis sounds cool, but seeing how the spell has Verbal components and a 1 minute duration, you cannot use it to do something sneakily and without drawing attention to yourself, and you often cannot take it into combat pre-cast (not that there would be any point to, before lv13)...

Abilities competing for bonus actions or concentration aren't some unique detriment to rangers. They are part of the game for everyone.

You really should have a look at the Ranger spell list.

It might not exist for you at your table but the game doesn't exist specifically for you at your table. ;-)

I dunno about that - if we're taking into account a small percentage of players in the first place, I'm just a smaller percentage, so I guess I need to be taken just as seriously.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes, but the other casters' spell list isn't 90% concentration spells only. Let me just Zeph... oh. Let me just Ensnaring... oh never mind.

2024 at least made archers have something they could spend their slots on with Hail of Thorns / Lightning Arrow becoming concentration-free. If they'd bothered to do that for the other spells, Ranger would be in a better spot.

Yes. Magic weapon exists though. It helps a little. For a dual wielder it does quite a lot.
You can use ensnaring strike. Other casters also have to give up some damage to disable foes.
Clerics now also have to concentrate on spiritual weapon etc.

As it is, forced Hunter's Mark is in direct opposition to Rangers being a caster (of anything other than HM). This should not be hard to see, given it's been the main problem of Ranger for 10 years, and now WotC only made it worse.

They did not made it worse. They made it easier. Because dropping HM for something else is way less punishing. You can just recast it basically for free. You also don't have to prepare it.

Yes, the player should be able to choose. I'm cool with letting people who want nothing other than do basic attacks and spam HM pick that, let me pick some free Goodberries instead.

I would not be opposed to that.

It's actually a good example of a bad feature being promoted so much, that some people start to think it is important to the class.

It is not a bad feature. You just don't like it.

Having dextrous telekinesis sounds cool, but seeing how the spell has Verbal components and a 1 minute duration, you cannot use it to do something sneakily and without drawing attention to yourself, and you often cannot take it into combat pre-cast (not that there would be any point to, before lv13)...

You can just cast it. You might lose stealth though.

You really should have a look at the Ranger spell list.

Only level 4 is really problematic. You still can chose freedom of movement and just upcast non concentration spells.

I dunno about that - if we're taking into account a small percentage of players in the first place, I'm just a smaller percentage, so I guess I need to be taken just as seriously.

Yes. But that does not mean book space should be dedicated for you.
You are a reasonable person that can just houserule.
Before you cite the oberoni fallacy: it is not a bad feature you need to houserule to make it work. You just don't like it.

 

[Minigiant]

It doesn't need much. The spell already gives you advantage to find it.

"You magically mark one creature, or tracks of a creature, you can see within range as your quarry."

But you could do more

Tracker's Mark
You magically mark a creature or tracks of a creature you can see within range as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you ignore any penalties to your tracking or spotting this creature due to the passage of time, hardness of surface, or any weather since the making of the trail. This spell has no effect on tracks more than thirty days old.

You also deal an extra 1d4 Psychic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll and have Advantage on any Wisdom (Perception or Survival) check you make to find it.

If the target drops to 0 Hit Points before this spell ends, you can take a Bonus Action to move the mark to a new creature or set of tracks you can see within range.
Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The timeframe of spell's effect is increased with a spell slot of level 3–4 (up to 1 year) or 5+ (up to 1 decade).

 

[Vaalingrade]

It doesn't have to always be on.

Yeah, it only has to be on when you want most of your class features to matter.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, it only has to be on when you want most of your class features to matter.

Again people are looking at it backwards.

It's not

"I can't cast Summon Fey because Relentless Hunter forces me to need to keep Hunter's Mark on"

It's

"I can cast Summon Fey 1-3 times. And when I run out I can cast Hunter's Mark 4 times because it's still good at this level due to Relentless Hunter."

EDit: Summon not Conjure

 

[ECMO3]

nm

 

[ECMO3]

It did?! I mean, it had them as class-level titles, but I sure don't recally there being functionally different Wizards and Sorcerers.

Other than level there wasn't.

The point is in terms of tradition Arcane spells and magical abilities have always been a core part of the Ranger. Hunter's Mark has not.

 

[ECMO3]

"I can cast Conjure Fey 1-3 times. And when I run out I can cast Hunter's Mark 4 times because it's still good at this level due to Relentless Hunter."

Ok to start with Conjure Fey is not a Ranger spell and is 6th level meaning a single class Ranger can never cast it.

Maybe you mean Summon Fey? In any case after you run out of summon Fey you have a bunch of other spells that are better than Hunter's Mark, inlcuding 1st level spells.

As I pointed out earlier I have played multiple Rangers to 20th level, when I was not concentrating on something else and wanted extra damage, I would spam Favored Foe with multiple uses on a single turn and I NEVER ran out of Favored Foe at high level. What that means is there were less than 6 attacks a day I needed extra damage when I was not already concentrating. There is going to be no use for these free castings of Hunter's Mark the way I play.

 

[Minigiant]

Ok to start with Conjure Fey is not a Ranger spell and is 6th level meaning a single class Ranger can never cast it.

Maybe you mean Summon Fey? In any case after you run out of summon Fey you have a bunch of other spells that are better than Hunter's Mark, inlcuding 1st level spells.

Meant Summon Fey.
Sure
But you have the free castings as an option.
The point is that you have the option.

As I pointed out earlier I have played multiple Rangers to 20th level, when I was not concentrating on something else and wanted extra damage, I would spam Favored Foe with multiple uses on a single turn and I NEVER ran out of Favored Foe at high level. What that means is there were less than 6 attacks a day I needed extra damage on when I was not already concentrating. There is going to be no use for these free castings of Hunter's Mark the way I play.

And like I said

Favored Foe caps at 6 uses per LR and can' be swapped on target death.

So unless you fight less than Prof Mod targets a day, Favored Foes is inferior.

Now there are tables where you have <3 encounters a day and most fights are 1 Big Guy and a bunch of useless minions. Then I could see you never running out.

But otherwise, FF < HM.