D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[Aldarc]

There is no relationship between universal gravitation and "a serious approach to play*,

I have no idea why this would be so controversial, much less even need to be stated.

But maybe "the fetishization of realism" in TTRPGs could be a separate topic for another thread.

 

[Bae'zel]

I have no idea why this would be so controversial, much less even need to be stated.

But maybe "the fetishization of realism" in TTRPGs could be a separate topic for another thread.

Agreed. Gravity has never occupied my thoughts in fantasy D&D more than “here’s how to calculate fall damage” and “things float about in the Astral Plane”.

 

[Mort]

I have no idea why this would be so controversial, much less even need to be stated.

But maybe "the fetishization of realism" in TTRPGs could be a separate topic for another thread.

If I think about "reality" at all before or during a game, it's in the context of mythic reality. How would things be in a Greek, Norse, or otherwise relevant myth, not "our" reality.

 

[Aldarc]

If I think about "reality" at all before or during a game, it's in the context of mythic reality. How would things be in a Greek, Norse, or otherwise relevant myth, not "our" reality.

If I really wanted more "realism" in my TTRPGs, I would probably choose a game like Runequest, which is ironically also incredibly bonkers in how it leans into its mythic reality: e.g., flat earth, dragon dreams, god bones as metal, heroes channeling gods, etc.

 

[Bae'zel]

On that note, to reply to the OP’s thread title, I always go with “my gut” over seeking out and reading detailed rules about physics in game. Stuff like push limits with Strength stats. I tend to go with “would this stunt be plausible as a scene in a movie about this campaign?”.

My sister’s raging Tiefling Barbarian (based on Karlach) tried to push over a column onto some baddies. I could have been pedantic about the column’s size, hardness, hit points etc but I said “screw it, make an Athletics check” (with advantage using 2024 rage rules). The result of 18 was enough for me, and thankfully no one’s +1 Monocle of Mathematical Scrutiny popped off in shock.

 

[mamba]

is nonsense.

For instance, can you even tell me - without looking up wikipedia or similar - why it is impossible, on earth, to have giant terrestrial arthropods; why it is impossible, on earth, for a dragon to fly; why it is impossible, on earth, for there to be a humanoid with the strength and stature of a storm giant?

I did not say you need to come up with scientifically sound explanations for why these things can exist, only that as far as things are not mentioned, I assume they work like they do on Earth. The alternative is that I would have to ask the DM questions for hours before any decision my character would make, to make sure I did not miss a way in which the fantasy world differs from ours that could theoretically affect the action / its outcome. That is just not feasible.

The operating assumption is things are just like on Earth, and we do not think too hard about it when they are not (dragons…)

People have known that water is buoyant for as long as they have had the cognitive capacity to know things, and have tried swimming and observed floating timber. This has nothing to do with physics being true.

I didn’t say it proves that physics are true, I said I assume I would be able to swim, just like I can on Earth, and if you as the DM then say ‘whoops, water is different here, you drown, and for that matter it is not water to begin with’, you have one less player

People knew that suffocation was a risk before they knew about oxygen, which is knowledge humans have had for only centuries. D&D PCs know they need to breathe. They know nothing of oxygen

I did not say they knew about oxygen, I said I would expect it to work the same way as here, so if I am in a closed room, I will eventually suffocate, and if I make a fire in it, that will be faster. If you then turn around and say ‘if your character had made a fire in that closed room, it would have produced what he needed to breathe and you could have survived’, I will have to strive hard to not punch you

There are many implicit assumptions in everything we do in the game, and the unspoken agreement is that they work just like they work here, even if the ‘why’ could be different.

So yeah, there are dragons that are too heavy to fly and can breathe fire, but you can create a Fireball out of thin air, so clearly things are different in some way, but in all the small ways they still behave the same. Can this be scientifically reconciled? Probably not, but it also doesn’t matter.

If you came up with whole new workable physics that allow for everything that goes on in D&D, good for you. If these physics require that water is not buoyant enough for humanoids to float, you better say so in session 0 or let me undo my decision to take a swim if you did not

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If I think about "reality" at all before or during a game, it's in the context of mythic reality. How would things be in a Greek, Norse, or otherwise relevant myth, not "our" reality.

I think it’s interesting how different people make different assumptions regarding this. It certainly is true that it makes sense that the immediately observable reality works roughly like in the real life unless noted otherwise, but personally I would not extend that assumption to normally unobservable underpinnings of that reality.

Like for example my current setting Artra is animistic and a lot of natural phenomena are produced by spirits, not by laws of physics. (Granted these spirits seem to follow spiritual laws that produce surprisingly similar outcomes than the natural laws of Earth. )

 

[Bae'zel]

...
The operating assumption is things are just like on Earth, and we do not think too hard about it when they are not (dragons…)
...
If you came up with whole new workable physics that allow for everything that goes on in D&D, good for you. If these physics require that water is not buoyant enough for humanoids to float, you better say so in session 0 or let me undo my decision to take a swim if you did not

It IS important to establish baseline assumptions about the world the players are engaging with.

Most of the time, I think that people assume that at the very least the campaign works on "Cinematic" of "movie logic" physics (for D&D's typical heroic fantasy, anyway).

For example, if your campaign pitch is "Naruto" or "Dragonball" I'd have questions for you as a GM (eg, are the jump rules impacted? Are strength and dexterity checks a bit more loosely interpreted?).

Regardless, I think that being clear about setting expectations about stuff like this would be important.

Ie, where on the scale of GURPS To Fate Core is this campaign, to cite 2 possible extemes.

 

[Maxperson]

There is no relationship between universal gravitation and "a serious approach to play*,

And what about relativity?

Does it interfere with gameplay? If it doesn't, then according to Gygax he tried to give it the highest level of realism.

Can D&D PCs do experiments to try and determine the perturbations in the orbits of celestial bodies close to the sun?

Why not? Seems boring to me, but if the players really want to do that, why would you stop them?

The whole idea is ridiculous, given that D&D worlds don't obey relativistic limits on the transmission of signals through space and time.

I've seen nothing that says that the worlds don't obey that. Magic goes around physics, but other than magic being used to send such messages, is there another way? Not that I can think of.

Gygax's own worlds do not say that universal gravitation is part of the game.

Of course not. If he had to spell out every bit of realism that doesn't interfere with the game, you'd end up running the game out of an encyclopedia set.

The realism he is talking about pertains to things like how fast and far pursuers can pursue fleeing PCs,

So you're saying that the realism he's talking about when he says "doesn't interfere with the flow of the game" are things that interfere with the flow of the game?

 

[SkidAce]

Ie, where on the scale of GURPS To Fate Core is this campaign, to cite 2 possible extemes.

Thats an interesting way of framing the question....good analogy.