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Alignment and real world examples...

SlamZanee

First Post
My friend/DM made a system dapted from the D&D alignments but for people.

Lawful - Someone who thinks everything out before they act...less impulsive likes facts can be quite a drag at times though. (obviously much much more but im sure you guys get it)

Chaotic - Someone who loves impulsiveness...tends to be more emotional and reacts imediatly without thinking first at times (ect..)

Neutral - both chaotic nd lawful tendencies but isnt just a meld of the both but its own catagory all together.

now people sometimes get very angry at the system but it really works and it helps you communicate with people better...and even though i hate generalized catagories it really tnds to be accurate...of course even if somone is lawful it doesnt mean they have to act liek every other lawful.

he also has elements (fire, water, earth, air) to define it just define the element. fire...can be warming but can burn without notice...is at times uncontrolable...earth...solid...stubborn...nurturing....also when combining an element to a alignment it changes even more...before people say how stupid this is think about it try to use it on yourself or a friend its quite interesting.

by the way im Neutral Fire.
 

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frankthedm

First Post
Lawful Evil: Japanese military during the Asia-pacific part of World War 2.

Placing their honor above their own lives, feeling it was better to kill ones self and save face rather than become a prisoner of war, many soldiers viewed the Chinese who surrendered to them with contempt. This mixed with the typical Japanese view of the time of non-Japanese being non-people, created the attitude that birthed some of the worst atrocities ever on planet earth, rivaling if not surpassing the atrocities of the Nazis.

The Japanese soldier’s recreations at Rape of Nanking, that horrified even some Nazis, could make them right at home with the most misogynistic of Orcs.
 


I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
While I do think this exercise may be doomed to failure, for philosophical and political reasons (heck, we're already arguing if Hippies are Good), I'll pipe in with my takes on the alignment....for instance

LN - Many people; those who perform or do not perform actions because of 'the rules' rather than actual morality.

I see this as not that accurate....it'd be more accurate to say that the rules *are* the morality, in this case. That order, structure, and organization are of tantamount importance, even if some people get hurt in the process, because an organized harmony is the best for the most people, even if some don't like it. They don't just follow the rules because they are 'the rules,' they follow the rules out of an ardent belief that there is a reason behind them, and that if everyone were to follow their example, the world would work at a glorious pace, to the survival benefit of everyone. Some would obviously be stepped on -- society has to be built on the backs of *someone* -- but others would be honored and respected. One's position in the world is directly indicative of what they deserve -- leaders are leaders because they're the best leaders the time can offer, and while obeying them is useful sometimes organizing a rebellion to oust a chaotic ruler is the best approach for the alignment.

In some ways, this is similar to, say the Hinu philosophical caste system, where if you are born into a high caste (such as Priest), it is because you were a good person in the former life, and the easier life of the Brahmin is your reward. Meanwhile, if you are born as a slave, it is because you were a bad person in a former life, and the harsh life of a laborer in the sewers (for instance) is your punishment. If you do not obey your role in life, in the correct fashion, this dictates your spiritual mobility. Morality is vague, because the value of life is directly related to the value of life within that society -- if you can eat turkey, that turkey is obviously not as enlightened a soul as you are. But if a dragon can eat you, there is obviously some learning left to do.

I agree that Lawful Good is kind of the ideal "moral official," a political figure or civil servant who wants to do the most good for the most people. Leaders who want to help their community, and who think that order and justice are the hallmarks of a productive world....

Lawful Evil is the pristine example of the conniving sneak. Corrupt civil servants who use their position in the world as a method to harass others, destroy what others have wrought, and simply to get a rise out of those helpless. "Bad cops" who beat criminals for joy, those who enjoy the punishment so much they encourage criminals (excecutioners who delight in what they do rather than seeing it as a necessity), and politicans who use their position to hurt any and all they may find unpleasant (and enjoy creating seemingly justified reasons for those actions, that are perhaps fabricated completely, or perhaps just playing off of public opinion to destroy someone's life).

Chaotic Good is definately something of a "hippie ideal." There are no rules, there are no restraints, one can persue morality as best one thinks, since people will come to the same conclusion in different ways. Working together is counter-productive, since only individuals can realize Goodness in their own specific ways. All establishments are the root of corruption in the world, by virtue of their power...if there was no government, there would be no evil. No nationalism, no leaders, simply each person for themselves -- this would result in helping neighbors, kindly strangers, and forgiving souls, since that is the nature of humanity.

Chaotic Evil is a delight in anarchy for the trouble it causes. The base nature of humanity is corruption, and Chaotic Evil types delight in unfettering the restraints that keep 'common decency' in place. Individual freedoms lead to individuals abusing each other, and that is the way things should be...blood, violence, pain, ruthlessness, survival purely of the most demonic, the most able to purge a sense of 'decency' from themselves. When left without rules, humanity becomes corrupt, abusive, and hateful, with no sense of cooperation holding them back from fighting their fellow man -- and that is perfect.

Chaotic Neutral is more a pure "freedom for freedom's sake." There should be no fetters and restraints. Sure, that means some people get hurt more than others, and it means some people benefit more than others, but that part doesn't matter as much as the Freedom itself does. It is up to the individual to do what they can, not an organized group. One army should not destroy the others, one person should destroy the other. Take the bad with the good, roll with the punches, and accept that life is out of your control -- the most you can do is control your own actions, and even those are simply the product of random chance, in the end. Laws and rules and social norms are just crutches for the weak and cowardly....in Chaos lies the true human nature, the good, the bad, and the mostly in-between. The good one can fight the bad one and leave the rest alone....it is the Self that is sacred.
 
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Belegbeth

First Post
A fun game...

The Alignments of the Great Philosophers:

LG = Immanuel Kant ("the Categorical Imperative")
NG = Aristotle ("the golden mean")
CG = John Locke ("Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Property" [Yes, Jefferson plagiarized Locke!])
LN = Thomas Hobbes ("The Leviathan")
NN = Nietzsche (The Ubermenschen are "beyond Good and Evil")
CN = Bakunin (advocated violence to realize anarchism)
LE = Thrasymachus ("justice is the advantage of the stronger")
NE = Machiavelli ("a prince ... should know how to do evil")
CE = Marquis de Sade (not really a philosopher, but what the heck)

The Alignments of Contemporary Citizens, according to Nationality:

LG = Canadians
NG = Norwegians
CG = Australians
LN = Germans
NN = French
CN = Italians
LE = Swiss
NE = Americans (think they're NG)
CE = Dutch (fear the Dutch ...)

;)
 
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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
DM_Matt said:
I'm talking aobut real communism...most people agree that theoretical communism is so far removed from human nature that its not actually possible on a scale much larger than small, voluntary communes.

Yes but we are talking ideal systems on a board dedicated to Fantasy - so why not theoretical communism on a national or even global scale! (ie the corrupt Utopian setting)
 

DM_Matt

First Post
Belegbeth said:
A fun game...

The Alignments of the Great Philosophers:

LG = Immanuel Kant ("the Categorical Imperative")

The Alignments of Contemporary Countries:

LG = Canadians
NG = Norwegians
CG = Australians
LN = Germans
NN = French
CN = Italians
LE = Swiss
NE = Americans (think they're NG)
CE = Dutch (fear the Dutch ...)

;)

I'd put Kant at LN. The Axe Murderer's lent axe, for instance, shows how his rules CAN easily lead to evil acts.

I disagree with almost all those countries, but that involves going way too far into politics...
 

Belegbeth

First Post
DM_Matt said:
I'd put Kant at LN. The Axe Murderer's lent axe, for instance, shows how his rules CAN easily lead to evil acts.

I disagree with almost all those countries, but that involves going way too far into politics...

Ahhh, but Kant held that the only unconditional good thing in the universe is a good WILL. Kant's ethics was thoroughly deontological in nature. Your reply -- regarding "evil acts" -- belies your implicit commitment to consequentialism!

In my list of countries and alignments, I should have emphasized that I was referring to the alignments of typical CITIZENS of those countries, not the political policies of their respective governments. (If so, Canada would be SOOO LE!)

And it was intended, of course, in jest.

But seriously, though, fear the Dutch ... ;)
 
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S'mon

Legend
Calico_Jack73 said:
William Wallace I might put down as Chaotic Neutral. He fought for the freedom of the Scottish people against Edward I. According to history books Edward I was actually thought of as a very good king for the British people. Good and Evil didn't figure into it because each side saw what they were doing as good and what the other side was doing as evil. The key point is the Wallace fought for freedom which is a distictive Chaotic trait (IMHO).

Mel Gibson's version was CG, fighting L/NE Edward I. Real-world Wallace was probably N, though I don't know enough to judge. Edward I was a great king but also an evil sonofabitch - you don't get called 'Hammer of the Scots' unless you were pretty brutal even by the standards of the time. Probably LE - everything he did seemed to have a good reason behind it. I'm sure the _English_ people thought Edward I was great since he conquered and subjugated Wales and dominated Scotland, but I'm equally sure the rest of the _British_ (Welsh & Scots) weren't too keen on him!
 

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