Are you a Good Witch?...

[steeldragons]

Just jotting this down, here, now, before I forget it without the time to actually get to work on it.

I know there have been several Witch classes created for 5e already...some attempting to replicate the PF Witch, some more Robert Jordan, some truly creative and masterful works...

...and I'm gonna do one too.

I have thought, as witch's more about learning their trade and books [even "recipe books", if you are thinking potion brewing as a major trait] it is a possible Wizard subclass...maybe I'll do that as a "simple" option.

But I think [for me] the more flavorful way to go, and the only way to even try to do justice to the vast array of differing material on this subject is all out Class with its own subclasses.

What I'm thinking now is a class of set/common attributes (like they all are) and subclasses then more based on what you focus on doing with your powers. The "What you do/How you do it" split that the class/archetypes are actually built on...and we sometimes forget that in our homebrewing zeal to create a class/subclass from/to match XYZ source.

So, before I get to actual writing and formatting and stuff, maybe we can use this as a convenient place for folks to throw out their concepts/wishes/likes/dislikes of what a "Witch" class as a 5e D&D Class/subclasses might look like. Common traits, folkloric/mythic powers (of any/all cultures!), legendary and pop culture references that might be a little different or fun...

Basically, what would you like to see in a Witch for D&D. Hit me!

 

[steeldragons]

As I'm currently thinking...

The main class will essentially follow the Warlock levels for when/where they get their tricks, follow Wizard spell progression. While I would LIKE to jut say draw from the Wizard [and/or Bard?] spell list...5e's system kind of demands that, as its own class, it needs its own class spell list. Which is fine, I can combine the flavors of spells I think a witch should have.

The base class might include some kind of "crafting" ability, for making potions, talismans...maybe [not 100% on] scribing scrolls, a "Hex" ability [or whole separate mechanic, to rival the Warlock "invocations"?], and I'm thinking a "group magic" [better name t.b.d.] mechanic/ability to help and/or use other spellcasters [which is practically everyone in 5e] to improve their own ritual casting (possibly spells also, at high level) potency.

I'm up in the air of the mandatory "familiar" thing...though it certainly matches lore. So that might get worked in as a base class feature as well.

Subclasses, then, will be broken into what I am tentatively calling "Witchly Crafts" [heh heh. "witchcraft". geddit?] Again, final names/titles t.b.d.:
a "Moon/White Witch": healer, protector, dream magic, dispeller of evil magic and spirits, "do no harm" kinda witch
a "Hedge/Green Witch": the nature oriented, lots of plant magic and fae magic [enchantments/illusions], superior herbalism/potion making skill, the "rural wise woman" kinda witch...who can heal you or curse you as necessary. Often a trick or "catch" in their dealings.
a "Dark/Wicked" Witch: fairly self-explanatory, demon dealings, causing harm with impunity, spreading [and likely spurred on by] malice if not actually assisting/assisted by evil, the unabashed "user of black magic" kinda witch...that other witches both fear and despise.

Was debating a 4th (would prefer not to go more than 5 subclasses), "Grey/Luck Witch": Midway between the White and Black magic users, powers that harken to/brush up against Marvel's "Scarlet Witch", a manipulator of probability and luck to effect the outcome of other's actions, moreso than directly effecting others with their magic...but not sure if that's a strong enough archetype on its own to warrant a subclass or if it's the kind of thing that "any witch character of any subclass should be able to pull off."

But there's my thoughts thus far...now...a shower seems in order.

 

[steeldragons]

So no love/thoughts/questions/interest for a witch class, huh?

Just as well, for now...I should really get back to finishing up my Fighter subclasses and want to throw together a few more non-caster/magical Rogue subclass options...wanted to try my hand at some Shaman options, too.

Maybe I'll come back to this afterward.

 

[Greg K]

I'm interested in a witch class. Personally, the places that I would start
1) Green Ronin's Witch's Handbook by Steve Kenson for 3e
2) Mayfair Games's Witches by Nigel Findley for AD&D 2e which presents several types of witches: 1) Classical (priestess of an earth mother/fertility goddess); 2. Medieval Witch (Diannic Cult tradition practioners mistakenly believed to be in league with the devil); 3) Faerie Witch (based on 19th century literature and limited to elves; 4) Modern Witches (Gardner/Wicca); 5) Voodoo; 6) Animistic; 7) Elemental (makes pacts with an entity associated with one of the four elements similar to The Craft. however, limited to elemental spells associated with the entity; 8) Literature (Deryni)) Note: Green Ronin includes The Voodoo and Animistic Witches in their superb Shaman's Handbook by Steve Kenson for 3e

3) Tom Moldvay's article on what a D&D Witch should include in a class.

 

[steeldragons]

Many thanks. They all sound great. The Mayfair Games and Moldvay in particular.

Do you know where to find #3?! I'd be very interested to see Moldvay's thoughts on this.

 

[Greg K]

Many thanks. They all sound great. The Mayfair Games and Moldvay in particular.

Do you know where to find #3?! I'd be very interested to see Moldvay's thoughts on this.

Moldvay's thoughts were in issue #43 (page 8). Most, if not all of his points, I think are addressed by both Kenson and Findley (the latter depending upon the tradition): herbalism as healing, a limited blend of cleric/druid/wizard magic+ some unique witch spells, charming spells, ritual magic, sympathetic magic, the importance of seasons, possible disapproval from clerics and wizards and/or possibly a practitioner of "old ways"

By the way, of Kenson and Findley, I have a preference for the former's Witch's Handbook which I consider the best Witch class for any edition of D&D to date (His shaman is also, in my opinion, the best Shaman class/sourcebook). He gets into looking at soltices, herbalism, circle (ritual) magic, candles and other tools of the trade. Several witch variations (e.g, the Hag, the Priestess) are done as prestige classes. However, Findley's Witches is also very good and one of the few pre-3e non-setting supplements that I kept.

 

[steeldragons]

How well do you (or anyone else!) think 5e could handle something following a calendar (rising/falling seasons/solstices/equinoxes) and/or moon cycle mechanic?

IIRC, Dragonlance's sourcebook for AD&D has a moon cycle mechanic with the mages of High Sorcery spells/magic saves or something waxing and waning with the world's moons...

Could that work for 5e or would it be too...I don't know setting dependent/specific/too much flavor..too much "Now I have to do accounting for the world's moons/days passing" griping from DMs?

I found a synopsis of Moldvay's list with some google-fu. All things I, basically, had in mind already. So that was heartening. Have to see what I can find on Kenson.

As for the concern about using cleric & wizard spells without stepping on each other's toes...my "Basic" homebrew game system that was created for my world setting of Orea used a "Witch" as a subclass/wild-type of Mage/Wizard that was permitted to choose from Illusion and Nature magic spells...that seemed to hit the right balance (and nicely differentiaating) without stepping on any toes. Of course, to port that to 5e, I would need to come up with a "Witch class Spell List" since all magic using classes get their own lists...But then, Arcane Trickster says "Illusion or Enchantment magic" and Eldritch Knight says "Evocation or Abjurataion magics"...so I suppose there is some precedent to work off of...

 

[Greg K]

As for the concern about using cleric & wizard spells without stepping on each other's toes...my "Basic" homebrew game system that was created for my world setting of Orea used a "Witch" as a subclass/wild-type of Mage/Wizard that was permitted to choose from Illusion and Nature magic spells...that seemed to hit the right balance (and nicely differentiaating) without stepping on any toes. Of course, to port that to 5e, I would need to come up with a "Witch class Spell List" since all magic using classes get their own lists...But then, Arcane Trickster says "Illusion or Enchantment magic" and Eldritch Knight says "Evocation or Abjurataion magics"...so I suppose there is some precedent to work off of...

For myself, I see charm spells (and other mind/emotion affecting spells), illusion, nature spells ( dealing with animals, plants, weather), polymorph and shapechanging, detect magic, dispel magic, protection spells all as being appropriate. I also see some spells dealing with blessings (providing small bonuses to saves, ability/proficiency checks), bestowing curses, removing curses and enchantments, create food, and some cure wounds (nothing dealing with raise dead/resurrection), cure blindness/deafness, remove poison, scrying/divination as also being appropriate. However, it also depends upon what sources you use as reference.

 

[Greg K]

And, of course, you need things like eternal slumber (Briar Rose, Snow White, Sleeping beauty), Steal Youth, Restore Youth

 

[steeldragons]

And, of course, you need things like eternal slumber (Briar Rose, Snow White, Sleeping beauty), Steal Youth, Restore Youth

These could/should be handled by "brews" I would think...I am/was thinking Potion Brewing would be a class feature...and Hexes that were structured like Warlock Invocations or, maybe Monk ki powers could work as well...but the Hexes themselves could be rolled into special "Brews" that are not on any official "Potion" magic item list/only available from Witch's Brews.

Good stuff. Lots to think about.