Battlestar Galactica:Seaon 2 Part3 7.29.05

[fett527]

OK, so I missed last week and it is now apparent I won't be able to see it before tomorrow night. I am picking up a DVR box from Time Warner tomorrow, it WON'T happen again.

I read through all the posts this morning (a task that) and I saw some snippets of what actually happened during the episode and I read the SciFi channel synposis, but if someone could give me a run down on the important details I would appreciate it.

 

[Vigilance]

From what I see, when Adama was concious, as he Understands it, HE leads humanity. Right now, in space they are in the middle of a war. HE has the experience, he has the knowledge and he has the authority (from his perspective) to lead humanity to saftey. He allows Roslyn and the Quorum to exist as they are, as concessions to make the colonial people still alive more comfortable. To keep hope alive.

Remember in the pilot mini series, keeping hope alive was one of the most important things to him.

I'm sure that Adama fully intends to reach a safe planet away from the cylons, then fall into the backround letting Roslyn and company run humanity, and being there to do what he needs to do.

But, right now the entire thing is a military operation. They're running for their lives. The planets they call home are obliterated. There IS no government. There is a bunch of surviving ships protected by the miltiary.

I agree with him. Roslyn was wrong for sending starbuck out like that. Despite what she belives. She should have stepped back and let Adama do his job of getting them to saftey.

If earth was destroyed and I ended up on some starship. I certainly wouldnt want Bush calling the shots out there when some manaics were trying to kill us. I'd want the miltary in complete control till I was safe and sound.

But as we've all said before. Its a fantasy, its not real.

Lets just see how the story plays out

Here's my comment on this whole discussion.

Apollo gave you the answer as to why Adama didn't just want to take over and ignore Roslyn's Presidency "if we're not obeying the law then she's not the President and you're not the commander".

In other words, if we've abandoned the rule of law, the next time one of you tells me what to do, Im getting a gun, fragging you and taking over.

And as I recall that episode, they both seemed to realize the implication he was making.

And remember, she wasn't some dogcatcher who decided she should have some power. She was in the chain of command.

Also, your statement that Adama wanted to find a safe planet from the get-go is incorrect. Adama wanted to arm the Galactica and go down in a blaze of glory. *Roslyn* convinced him the war was over and that it was time for Galactica to save what was left of humanity.

Finally, if these last 50,000 are really going to save humanity only to "save" it in the form of a military dictatorship that ignores their laws *and* their religious beliefs, why are they bothering?

That's why I think Roslyn is walking on the path of the angels here and Adama is dead wrong.

Chuck

 

[Rykion]

In which case, we go back to Apollo's quote: Roslin's not President, Adama's not an admiral, Apollo isn't a captain, and no one needs to bother following orders. It is hard to justify a military structure based upon loyalty to a government and set of laws if you set those things aside.

I don't believe most of the military has kept its structure because of loyalty to the government or its laws. The majority of the military's loyalty is to Commander Adama, and he has kept them in proper military bearing. They arrested the President at his command. A military loyal to the government would be unlikely to follow such an order. Apollo is an exception as he was not part of the Galactica's crew and has a poor relationship with his father. Tigh is really screwing things up, and would probably find himself sucking vacuum if Adama died. Adama really doesn't seem to want authority over the civillians. He was angry that the President broke the proper chain of command.

 

[dravot]

OK, so I missed last week and it is now apparent I won't be able to see it before tomorrow night. I am picking up a DVR box from Time Warner tomorrow, it WON'T happen again.

I read through all the posts this morning (a task that) and I saw some snippets of what actually happened during the episode and I read the SciFi channel synposis, but if someone could give me a run down on the important details I would appreciate it.

The Quorum (including Crazy Richard Hatch) show up and demand to see the President. Tigh stows them away while he thinks of what to do.

The President is suffering from withdrawal of Khamalla extract, and is visited by Ellen Tigh while in this state. Ellen sees how she is and reports this back to her husband.

Billie finds out that our favorite guard is from Geminon, which apparently follows the scriptures more closely than anyone else. He asks said guard if he knows where they can get more Extract, which they do.

Tigh brings the Quorum to the brig ("Viewing time at the zoo"). The President is initially unresponsive, but then claims to be the Prophet. She's asked about dying, and she admits to having cancer. Crazy Richard Hatch intervenes and asks the Geminon representative for an opinion. Tigh is clearly losing control of the situation and gets everyone out.

He ends the show by declaring Martial Law.

Oh, and stuff happens on Kobol, too.

 

[Storm Raven]

I would expect the President to retain command of the military, but only if he was competent to do it.

A determination that would not be up to a two-star general to make.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I don't believe most of the military has kept its structure because of loyalty to the government or its laws. The majority of the military's loyalty is to Commander Adama, and he has kept them in proper military bearing. They arrested the President at his command. A military loyal to the government would be unlikely to follow such an order. Apollo is an exception as he was not part of the Galactica's crew and has a poor relationship with his father. Tigh is really screwing things up, and would probably find himself sucking vacuum if Adama died. Adama really doesn't seem to want authority over the civillians. He was angry that the President broke the proper chain of command.

Exactly. They crew of the Galactica didn't question Adama at all when he bascially terminated the Presidency of Roslin. And notice that when the President's secretary guy talked to the communications officer, Dee I think, in last episode she said the President was trying to inspire mutiny on her ship. How can it be mutiny if the President is the commander? She isn't, they are loyal to Adama and the chain of command, not the President. Probably becuase they are soliders and they are used to doing so and following orders, and they respect and have faith in Adama. Now that Tigh is in charge things may start to change but I haven't seen anything to suggest that anyone on Galactica other than Apollo had a problem with Adama's actions. Now they haven't done a poll or anything but I'm guessing characters like Dee are representative of the little guys in the crew.

 

[Storm Raven]

I don't believe most of the military has kept its structure because of loyalty to the government or its laws. The majority of the military's loyalty is to Commander Adama, and he has kept them in proper military bearing.

I doubt it. Most military personnel (in the modern world) don't follow a single charismatic leader because that's the thing to do. They are citizens sworn to uphold the ideals and functions of their government. Most military people follow that: their oath, not their commander.

They arrested the President at his command. A military loyal to the government would be unlikely to follow such an order.

A handful of soldiers followed his order. Then he was shot. We've only had a couple hours take place singe his decision, all of which have been filled with hectic combat against cylons. We have no idea what will happen once things calm down for a day or two and the troops start to think about what Adama's (and Tigh's) decisions really mean.

Apollo is an exception as he was not part of the Galactica's crew and has a poor relationship with his father. Tigh is really screwing things up, and would probably find himself sucking vacuum if Adama died. Adama really doesn't seem to want authority over the civillians. He was angry that the President broke the proper chain of command.

Except, if the 12 Colonies government is like every other known government that has ever existed, it was Adama who broke the proper chain of command by refusing to follow an order given to him by a superior. Roslin was likely perfectly within her rights to give Starbuck a direct order and bypass Adama. He just had a hissy fit.

 

[Storm Raven]

Exactly. They crew of the Galactica didn't question Adama at all when he bascially terminated the Presidency of Roslin.

Of course, they've only had a couple hours to absorb what has happened. I think things will go downhill for Adama/Tigh rapidly on this score. Keeping military discipline in the face of their utter disregard for the laws of the Colonies will be difficult.

And notice that when the President's secretary guy talked to the communications officer, Dee I think, in last episode she said the President was trying to inspire mutiny on her ship. How can it be mutiny if the President is the commander?

I think Dee is confused, or more properly, the writers are, they have already confused "martial law" with "military coup". I'm not sure they actually understand what "mutiny" means.

She isn't, they are loyal to Adama and the chain of command, not the President. Probably becuase they are soliders and they are used to doing so and following orders, and they respect and have faith in Adama. Now that Tigh is in charge things may start to change but I haven't seen anything to suggest that anyone on Galactica other than Apollo had a problem with Adama's actions. Now they haven't done a poll or anything but I'm guessing characters like Dee are representative of the little guys in the crew.

I think we don't really have a good idea of what the little guy has to say yet. Dee, being a bridge crew member with direct personal contact with Adama, is likely to be unrepresentative of the "little guy".

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I doubt it. Most military personnel (in the modern world) don't follow a single charismatic leader because that's the thing to do. They are citizens sworn to uphold the ideals and functions of their government. Most military people follow that: their oath, not their commander.

Beyond Apollo is there a single instance of anyone on the crew giving an indication of this?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Beyond Apollo is there a single instance of anyone on the crew giving an indication of this?

Not that I can think of.