BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: Season 2A Part 10; NSCR/9.23.2005. Mid-Season Ending

[TanisFrey]

They are guilty of war crimes, and as such deserve a fair trial whenever they are captured.

The danger is not in killing Cylons; the danger is in killing things that look human. We are _visual_ creatures, and it's easy to blur the line between "Cylon" and "that woman-looking thing over there".

I can toss out pithy sayings - "The ends don't justify the means", "when you act like the enemy, you become the enemy". They're pithy, but true. The object is to survive while keeping the moral/ethical/behavioral upper hand. Otherwise you get what I expected the episode to turn into: "We're from the Pegasus, we're better, and we can do whatever we want to both the Galactica crewmen and civilians because we're better". Classic pack behavior. And, from the comments of the drunk Pegasus crewmembers, it was about to come to that if the Sharon scene hadn't intervened.

Tye did comment to Adama that they should ask for the Pegasus log books and Adama laphed it off knowing that it would not fly.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Adama wouldn't have ever started yanking civilians off of a Fleet vessel and throwing them into uniform except under Very Dire Circumstances, which he hasn't seen yet despite their lack of pilots and obvious crew shortages.

They are in a non-stop Very Dire Circumstance. People would have to be pressed into service to maintain fighting strength to protect the fleet and the last of humanity.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Also, BTW, some forms of torture, especially rape, dehumanize the torturer, regardless of the value or rights of the victim. It is wrong to rape a SIMULATED human and enjoy it.

I've been trying to articulate a thought similar to this. My feeling is that if what they have done to pega-six "worked" then it was also objectivly wrong. Any being capableof being tortured has the right not to be. Any being capable of being humiliated has the right not to be.

But even if Pega-six was for whatever reason faking a response to the treatment, the desire to torture, humiliate or rape is a problem in and of itself, and indicates a pathology in the Pegasus crew. Is it wrong to torture a toaster? If you think the toaster is capable of being tortured, if you believe that you are humiliating it, it is pathological to try. The Pegasus crew is broken, regardless of whether they have a "real" victim or not.

 

[Rykion]

They are guilty of war crimes, and as such deserve a fair trial whenever they are captured.

If they start picking up more Cylons that weren't infiltrators in their fleet, such as Boomer 2, I agree, but there is no reason not to eliminate any Cylon found posing as human on a ship of the fleet. Their only possible reasons for being there are sabotage or to gather intelligence for the Cylon fleet. It is still a battle for survival for the Colonials. They do not have the luxury of letting an infiltrator survive long enough to accomplish its mission.

 

[Storm Raven]

They are in a non-stop Very Dire Circumstance. People would have to be pressed into service to maintain fighting strength to protect the fleet and the last of humanity.

Ah, but pillaging the rest of the fleet in order to beef up Galactica would strip valuable personnel from other functions - functions that Adama knows are necessary to keep Galactica going.

Galactica needs the civilian fleet to function over the long term, and Adama knows it.

 

[Aers]

Ah, but pillaging the rest of the fleet in order to beef up Galactica would strip valuable personnel from other functions - functions that Adama knows are necessary to keep Galactica going.

Galactica needs the civilian fleet to function over the long term, and Adama knows it.

exactly - I don't think the rest of the civilians are lounging around in deck chairs enjoying the view - they're probably working in some capacity to keep the fleet supplied with food, supplies, etc. - things that you can't have on a Battlestar. Water purification, greenhouse maintenance... there's just not enough room on Galactica and it wasn't ever meant to be self-sufficient, after all. Let's just start with child care, education for the children - the next generation that will have to maintain the ships, depending on the time they spend travelling... I don't think Cain can think past the next military attack and her crew have been on hard rations for months!

and in the long run it's been proven that having a volunteer military is better than a drafted one - I don't doubt that Galactica's had it's share of new recruits from the civilians; men and women who want to join the Colonial Fleet - NOT Cain's Rape and Pillage Party!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Ah, but pillaging the rest of the fleet in order to beef up Galactica would strip valuable personnel from other functions - functions that Adama knows are necessary to keep Galactica going.

Galactica needs the civilian fleet to function over the long term, and Adama knows it.

Of course. I'm just saying that the idea of drafting those who aren't doing essential tasks isn't wrong or anything, it's going to be necessary eventually.

 

[Truth Seeker]

That's almost verbatim one of the central questions of the entire series.

Where do you draw the line between "malfunctioning appliance" <--> "sentient being worthy of respect"?

You and Truth Seeker (vis-a-vis the crews of the Pegasus and Galactica) draw it in different places.

The yin & yang principle.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Which is one of the many reasons I so love this show. I can see and understand both points of view.

edit: deleted lest I be misinterpreted.

Yupe...but still, the near same or more equal value treatment, still rubs me.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Tye did comment to Adama that they should ask for the Pegasus log books and Adama laphed it off knowing that it would not fly.

Adama's Reaction:*grunt* "Won't that be nice..." Like a fly trying to dodge a spider web.