BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: Season 2A Part 10; NSCR/9.23.2005. Mid-Season Ending

[TanisFrey]

Hello,

I have not yet seen any of Season 2, but have been following bits and pieces of the threads around the series. I suspect there is a cyclon on Pegasus not yet discovered (there has to be, right?), but who it is is unknown.

As for the Pegasus CAG, the IMDB listing for the Pegasus episode does not name Callum Keith Rennie as being in the episode; he played Leoben (Cylon who fought Adama at Ragnor) in the Mini-Series.

Cheers

He is the wrong cyclon I was talking about before. I was talking about Actor Matthew Bennett whom played Aaron Doral in the miniseries. This cyclon was left on the supply depo when the fleet left. And we saw on Caprica with #6 and Boomer looking over Helo during season 1. The IMDB does not have a listing for the Pegasus CAG. So, still a bit of a question?

 

[Omand]

He is the wrong cyclon I was talking about before. I was talking about Actor Matthew Bennett whom played Aaron Doral in the miniseries. This cyclon was left on the supply depo when the fleet left. And we saw on Caprica with #6 and Boomer looking over Helo during season 1. The IMDB does not have a listing for the Pegasus CAG. So, still a bit of a question?

You may be correct, as I have not seen the episode (and will not for a few more months). Could not the IMBD lsitings for the various officers not name the Pegasus CAG as Pegasus CAG though?

I also think it highly unlikely that Bennett would have his name left off the credits. Too many people know his face on the series as the Doral model cylon.

Then again, I could be wrong.

Cheers

 

[TanisFrey]

You may be correct, as I have not seen the episode (and will not for a few more months). Could not the IMBD lsitings for the various officers not name the Pegasus CAG as Pegasus CAG though?

SciFi.com write up states the Pegasus CAG as Capt. Cole "Stinger" Taylor.

Capt. Cole "Stinger" Taylor is not listed on IMCB.

Is IMCB not totaly updated yet or are the producers trying to cloud whether or not issue of Capt. Cole "Stinger" Taylor, the Pegasus's CAG, being a cyclon?

 

[Omand]

SciFi.com write up states the Pegasus CAG as Capt. Cole "Stinger" Taylor.

Capt. Cole "Stinger" Taylor is not listed on IMCB.

Is IMCB not totaly updated yet or are the producers trying to cloud whether or not issue of Capt. Cole "Stinger" Taylor, the Pegasus's CAG, being a cyclon?

IMDB might not be totally updated. They do list one actor as being in the episode without naming his character, however.

Of course, the producers playing with us could also be the case.

Cheers

 

[wingsandsword]

I still say a civilian government and the trappings thereof are luxuries they can no longer afford.

Actually, I think "Pegasus" drives home just how much the fleet needs its civilian government, and what it would be like without it.

The Battlestar Pegasus is the exact path Adama almost went down, if not for Roslin convincing him that the war was over. Back in the miniseries Adama wanted to go back and keep fighting the war. Pegasus has got "tunnel vision" as its been described, it is locked only on the idea of destroying the Cylons, not perpetuating the human race, not finding a new home. Cain is still trying to "win" the war, with one ship against an entire race, and odds like that only work in video games.

If it hadn't found Galactica, the Pegasus would have eventually been destroyed by the Cylons (or their self-destructive behavior), it would slowly be run out of personell, vipers, armaments, and eventually worn down. The Civilian government and presence with Galactica is what keeps them realizing what they are fighting for, and why they are fighting.

The Pegasus is locked in a vengeance mindset, still fighting a war they lost months before, because all they had to live for is fighting. The civilian government reminds the Galactica that their first priority is to the survival of the human race, not pursing a lost war. Without a civilian government, we saw what happened to Galactica, and how very quickly it turned bloody and everything fell apart.

If not for the Civilian government, Galactica would still be fighting to the death back in the colonies and they would never have unlocked Athena's Tomb and found the path to Earth. Without the Civilian government, the human race would have died out to the Cylons.

 

[DM_Matt]

One of the reasons people may sympathize with the human form cylons is that the scientific explanation of what they are is total crap. They are "biomechanical" and indistinguishable from humans, which seems to mean that the definition of "biomechanical" in this case is "they are human, except for the fact that they are robots."

I have trouble wrapping my head around that. Sure, they seem to be able to interface with computers (how the hell doesnt this make them biologically different in significant ways), and have some form of communications/consciousness reimplantation, but these abilities seem to just be add-ons that they dont really scientifically explain.

The jury is still out as to wether or not they are individual entities or not, and that it a key question regarding their value.

Also, BTW, some forms of torture, especially rape, dehumanize the torturer, regardless of the value or rights of the victim. It is wrong to rape a SIMULATED human and enjoy it.

 

[Aers]

Actually, I think "Pegasus" drives home just how much the fleet needs its civilian government, and what it would be like without it.

The Battlestar Pegasus is the exact path Adama almost went down, if not for Roslin convincing him that the war was over. Back in the miniseries Adama wanted to go back and keep fighting the war. Pegasus has got "tunnel vision" as its been described, it is locked only on the idea of destroying the Cylons, not perpetuating the human race, not finding a new home. Cain is still trying to "win" the war, with one ship against an entire race, and odds like that only work in video games.

If it hadn't found Galactica, the Pegasus would have eventually been destroyed by the Cylons (or their self-destructive behavior), it would slowly be run out of personell, vipers, armaments, and eventually worn down. The Civilian government and presence with Galactica is what keeps them realizing what they are fighting for, and why they are fighting.

The Pegasus is locked in a vengeance mindset, still fighting a war they lost months before, because all they had to live for is fighting. The civilian government reminds the Galactica that their first priority is to the survival of the human race, not pursing a lost war. Without a civilian government, we saw what happened to Galactica, and how very quickly it turned bloody and everything fell apart.

If not for the Civilian government, Galactica would still be fighting to the death back in the colonies and they would never have unlocked Athena's Tomb and found the path to Earth. Without the Civilian government, the human race would have died out to the Cylons.

exactly - unless the Pegasus keeps running across civilian ships and cannibalizing them and impressing their crews into their ranks, it's doomed to failure at some point - there's just too many Cylons out there for them to win. It's not even a viable option at this point.

Roslyn and Adama have a bigger picture view of the situation - save humanity and that means keeping the civilians out of harm's way and keep moving, which means that they're NOT rushing to engage the Cylon fleet. Pegasus has been darned lucky up to this point that they've been able to avoid running into a few Basestars that would take them out pretty darned fast. They're rushing to their own deaths most of the time, when you think about it.

and if Cain were any sort of Flag Officer she wouldn't hesitate to change her mission when confronted with over forty thousand humans who need help and protection - why she's continuing to send out fighters and plan battles when there's a Fleet of civilians needing their help is obvious proof of her insanity. She's not even considering survival here, she's rushing them all to their eventual death.

her refusal to recognize the civilian government isn't surprising - she plans on using not only Galactica but the entire Fleet to keep Pegasus going. It wasn't any big surprise that she poached Apollo and Starbuck, the G's best pilots, right off the top. She sees them as only a resource to be exploited and used. Adama wouldn't have ever started yanking civilians off of a Fleet vessel and throwing them into uniform except under Very Dire Circumstances, which he hasn't seen yet despite their lack of pilots and obvious crew shortages.

Cain is a liability. Her crew might be salvagable but I think a lot of them will follow her down into the maw of Cylon Hell if only to avoid taking back on that cloak of humanity that the civilian fleet reminds them of.

 

[Storm Raven]

What choice did Cain and her crew have? As far as they knew, humanity has been annihilated. They have no prophecies or promises of Earth. The only thing separating Pegasus from Galactica is hope.

All they have left is their rage and their implacable desire to take as many of the bastards with them to Hell as they can.

And now they have something different available. And Cain hasn't changed her position on anything. That, from my perspective, is the main reason members of her crew will revolt against her - they will see the possibility of hope for survival that she apparently ignores.

I think that's why the "Laura" got highlighted as much as it did with respect to the Pegasus aeronautical engineer: building a new ship is a statement of hope, something the crew of the Galactica did, but we can assume the crew of the Pegasus did not. Like I said, Cain's is a path of revenge and destruction, and ultimately hopelessness. Adama's is a path of survival, and ultimately hope. Cain is fighting against something (the Cylons), Adama is fighting for something (the preservation of the civilian fleet). If you were a crew-member of the Pegasus, which would seem more appealing to you?

 

[dravot]

And now they have something different available. And Cain hasn't changed her position on anything. That, from my perspective, is the main reason members of her crew will revolt against her - they will see the possibility of hope for survival that she apparently ignores.

I think that's why the "Laura" got highlighted as much as it did with respect to the Pegasus aeronautical engineer: building a new ship is a statement of hope, something the crew of the Galactica did, but we can assume the crew of the Pegasus did not. Like I said, Cain's is a path of revenge and destruction, and ultimately hopelessness. Adama's is a path of survival, and ultimately hope. Cain is fighting against something (the Cylons), Adama is fighting for something (the preservation of the civilian fleet). If you were a crew-member of the Pegasus, which would seem more appealing to you?

I guess it would depend on just how bitter, cynical and burned out I was when I made the choice - and that's going to be the dividing line when Pegasus crew members take sides.

 

[Jarrod]

I don't think of most Cylons as much more than toasters. Those that are on human levels are guilty of war crimes. Kill all of them if doing so requires the death of all humans.

They are guilty of war crimes, and as such deserve a fair trial whenever they are captured.

The danger is not in killing Cylons; the danger is in killing things that look human. We are _visual_ creatures, and it's easy to blur the line between "Cylon" and "that woman-looking thing over there".

I can toss out pithy sayings - "The ends don't justify the means", "when you act like the enemy, you become the enemy". They're pithy, but true. The object is to survive while keeping the moral/ethical/behavioral upper hand. Otherwise you get what I expected the episode to turn into: "We're from the Pegasus, we're better, and we can do whatever we want to both the Galactica crewmen and civilians because we're better". Classic pack behavior. And, from the comments of the drunk Pegasus crewmembers, it was about to come to that if the Sharon scene hadn't intervened.