D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[GMforPowergamers]

Cost-benefit? Floods destroy entire cities, but we still have a lot of ancient cities on rivers and coastlines.

I'll raise you one better... today we still rebuild cities below sea level with flimsy dams and levies that can break/overflow... and since I said rebuild the reason it NEEDED to be rebuilt was it flooded during a storm.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If creatures exist in a setting that can destroy entire cities, it makes you wonder how cities came about in the first place.

Probably because cities can arm armies that can stop monsters, and/or attract/create heroes who can defeat them.

I'll raise you one better... today we still rebuild cities below sea level with flimsy dams and levies that can break/overflow... and since I said rebuild the reason it NEEDED to be rebuilt was it flooded during a storm.

Yeah and people rebuild cities which got destroyed because:

A) They were in a good place for a city.

B) Loads of free cut stone is already right there!

You can see this plenty in the ancient world and the city Schliemann thought was Troy is a great example, Hisarlik. I forget how many times it had been rebuilt but it was a lot, including being burned down more than once.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So if you want to interpret "abandoning the class" as "losing abilities", which abilities do you lose, exactly? ASI's are class abilities according to the chart, do you lose those? Do they lose Fighting Style? Extra Attack? You gain 1d10 Hit Dice per paladin level, according to page 84. Do I lose all my proficiencies granted by my class?

Strange that if this was ever the intent, that the PHB couldn't be bothered to outline which abilities should be lost by "abandoning" the class, instead of forcing the DM to make a ruling about each one. Or does a classless character become an NPC, like the Soldier or Gladiator? Do you stop being able to play your character entirely because you violated your Oath?

If that was the case, the PHB could certainly have explained these things. Or the DMG could have a section about it.

The 3e PHB had a section for classes that could "lose" their abilities in the class description. If there's no guideline explaining how to massively rewrite a character due to failing to meet some obligation, I'm going to go with Occam's Razor on this one and assume the simplest version; ie, you have to change your Oath/God/Patron or start taking levels in some other class.

That is probably what they intended, I just don't agree with it, and think they should have made their intentions clear.

 

[James Gasik]

I mean, yes, cities existing make sense, I guess I should clarify that as "cities as we know them" or "cities as they existed in whatever vague Medieval period most D&D settings want to emulate". The various fantastic (and flying!) monsters of D&D seem like their existence should have radically impacted what kinds of settlements would be created, including their defenses and fortified structures (the scene in GoT about one dragon obliterating a mighty castle comes to mind).

Maybe the Dwarves (and the settlers of ancient Derinkuyu or Petra) had the right idea?

 

[Greg Benage]

It seems like underground complexes--some dating back thousands of years--would be quite common in such a world.

 

[Mort]

It seems like underground complexes--some dating back thousands of years--would be quite common in such a world.

Because we all know how safe undeground is in D&D.

I think the relevant thinking would be EVERYWHERE is ludicrously dangerous, so may as well build somewhere nice and pray for the best. At least in many D&D worlds, prayer has a shot!

 

[Faolyn]

If creatures exist in a setting that can destroy entire cities, it makes you wonder how cities came about in the first place.

In all likelyhood, they're not destroying cities per se, but are destroying farms and other rural/"suburban" areas, which means that the cities need to defend them if they don't want to get starved to death.

But yeah, as we all know, a D&D setting that seriously takes magic and monsters into account should look very little like the real world. I would really like to see an official (or even 3pp) setting like that. Eberron isn't quite that.

Edit: Although I think you replied to my other post instead of the one about monsters and cities, because the one you replied to was about paladins.

 

[tetrasodium]

Wrt rebuilding cities there is a distinction relevant to d&d gameplay. We get better at rebuilding them. Ancient cities started building floodwalls & elevated buildings to help mitigate the damage done by minor flooding. Anyone who has lived in south florida since andrew back in the 90's has seen the evolution of "The Miami Code" on everything from what can be built to what types of trees can be grown how they can be cut how high & what types of signs can be built & even why gas stations are required to have a generator to keep their license (plus everything else I'm forgetting) over the years. Fire codes appear to have gone through similar evolution going back much further.Then there's all the money we spend on proactive storm tracking to avoid being caught unaware.

What that means is that yes we rebuild but we also pay professionals to stay safe & come up with ways of being safer. From there we pay professionals to enact those things. d&d cities are able to form by paying professionals called adventurers.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It seems like underground complexes--some dating back thousands of years--would be quite common in such a world.

so we can name the game after the most powerful flying creature your likely to see and the name for the underground complex dating back forever...

 

[Faolyn]

Cost-benefit? Floods destroy entire cities, but we still have a lot of ancient cities on rivers and coastlines.

Yeah, but in the real world, floods don't also deliberately loot and pillage. They just bury everything in mud and silt, which isn't bad at preserving things. In a D&D world, a flood could deliberately try to completely destroy a city, if the flood was actually a water elemental.