D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[Cap'n Kobold]

Where the 30 coming from?

Guardian: Two attacks of d8 damage, +5 Ability mod, +2 weapon (2 x 11.5 = 23) and a bonus action zap from the homunculus at d4 + 4 proficiency bonus (6.5). Total 29.5.
(Some guardians go with two-weapon fighting with their gauntlets to get more stickyness at the expanse of less AC, but that would require a feat and possible DM call. Since we're not talking specific builds, just fairly baseline options for the subclass, I left it out.

Infiltrator: Two attacks of d6 damage, +5 Ability mod, +2 weapon, with an extra d6 added to one. ((2 x 10.5) +3.5 = 24.5 ) and a bonus action zap from the homunculus at d4 + 4 proficiency bonus (6.5). Total 31.

 

[Zardnaar]

Guardian: Two attacks of d8 damage, +5 Ability mod, +2 weapon (2 x 11.5 = 23) and a bonus action zap from the homunculus at d4 + 4 proficiency bonus (6.5). Total 29.5.
(Some guardians go with two-weapon fighting with their gauntlets to get more stickyness at the expanse of less AC, but that would require a feat and possible DM call. Since we're not talking specific builds, just fairly baseline options for the subclass, I left it out.

Infiltrator: Two attacks of d6 damage, +5 Ability mod, +2 weapon, with an extra d6 added to one. ((2 x 10.5) +3.5 = 24.5 ) and a bonus action zap from the homunculus at d4 + 4 proficiency bonus (6.5). Total 31.

Ours just teleports around as a bonus action and uses sharpshooter.

 

[FrogReaver]

Guardian: Two attacks of d8 damage, +5 Ability mod, +2 weapon (2 x 11.5 = 23) and a bonus action zap from the homunculus at d4 + 4 proficiency bonus (6.5). Total 29.5.

Ah. I didn't realize you could enchant the weapon at level 9. Though I wouldn't count the homnoculus because it's a once per long rest ability and it's AC and HP will be low (you will be extremely unlikely to benefit from it the whole adventuring day due to it's likely death before the completion of the adventuring day).

(Some guardians go with two-weapon fighting with their gauntlets to get more stickyness at the expanse of less AC, but that would require a feat and possible DM call. Since we're not talking specific builds, just fairly baseline options for the subclass, I left it out.

I hadn't considered using the dual Wielder feat to gain an extra attack. Then you could do a 1 level dip into fighter for TWF. Seems reasonable enough. That would be 1d8+5+2 -> 11.5*3 = 34.5. That's at least enough over the Wizard that my damage comparison there is moot.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Is the Armorer really that much of a Trap Option? They seem pretty cool.

Not at all. They are as cool as they seem.

Warforged(+1) + enhanced defense infusion(+1)+ half-plate and shield(+19)

So, a very specific, fairly oddball, build, that needs an artificer in the party or to Mc artificer?

Most wizards become tanks regardless if they wanted too or not.

Lol wut. This is a wild enough claim I’m gonna have to ask for you to back it up. Because I’ve literally never seen any Wizard played as a tank nor heard anyone talk about their tank Wizard, over at least a dozen I’ve DMd for, hundreds of wizards I’ve read about online or heard about in person, nor dozens of wizards played on actual plays.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Highest AC I could get on a level 2 non-dwarf Wizard is 16.
No, shield does not count, it’s a limited resource. You already spent 1 of your 3/4 slots on mage armor, and you’re a Wizard, if you spend all your slots on shield you aren’t casting spells all day. Even ignoring that, you’ve got 3 slots left, including Arcane Recovery.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Highest AC I could get on a level 2 non-dwarf Wizard is 16.
No, shield does not count, it’s a limited resource. You already spent 1 of your 3/4 slots on mage armor, and you’re a Wizard, if you spend all your slots on shield you aren’t casting spells all day. Even ignoring that, you’ve got 3 slots left, including Arcane Recovery.

I would count shield from level 5 and above. But only in typical (not 6 encounter) adventuring days.

That was our experience before our "whole day long rest" instead of overnight long rest.

This is why most people think the wizard is so tanky.

Edit: the expense rate for shield is 1/4 attacks on average. If the enemy is bad at hitting, you can mitigate all damage. But usually some hits still get through. Otherwise, you would not be hit that often anyway, but shield protects you from not critical lucky punches.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

So, a very specific, fairly oddball, build, that needs an artificer in the party or to Mc artificer?

Lol wut. This is a wild enough claim I’m gonna have to ask for you to back it up. Because I’ve literally never seen any Wizard played as a tank nor heard anyone talk about their tank Wizard, over at least a dozen I’ve DMd for, hundreds of wizards I’ve read about online or heard about in person, nor dozens of wizards played on actual plays.

I think they may be referring to an artificer, not wizard.

Ah. I didn't realize you could enchant the weapon at level 9. Though I wouldn't count the homnoculus because it's a once per long rest ability and it's AC and HP will be low (you will be extremely unlikely to benefit from it the whole adventuring day due to it's likely death before the completion of the adventuring day).

The homunculus has a ranged attack that doesn't do massive damage from a tiny creature. It doesn't tend to be specifically targeted in preference to actual party members by people shooting at the group. Getting caught along with the party in an AoE or two is generally the way I've seen them get destroyed, but I've found it is relatively unusual to lose one in a day.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I would count shield from level 5 and above. But only in typical (not 6 encounter) adventuring days.

That was our experience before our "whole day long rest" instead of overnight long rest.

I wouldn’t, for sure. IME, even at those levels, wizards have a ton of other spells and only ever gets so many slots. Like it hurts to burn a 3rd level slot on shield when you could use it for Counterspell.

This is why most people think the wizard is so tanky.

But they just have situational AC, that isn’t a tank, by itself, and Artificer can get comparable armor without spending spell slots.

Edit: the expense rate for shield is 1/4 attacks on average. If the enemy is bad at hitting, you can mitigate all damage. But usually some hits still get through. Otherwise, you would not be hit that often anyway, but shield protects you from not critical lucky punches.

I see a lot of attacks fall between 8 and 25. It seems to me that only a game where combat is the only time spells are needed could see “tank” wizards.

I think they may be referring to an artificer, not wizard

THat would be odd, since they responded to me asking what Wizard could have AC 20 at level 2.

 

[Stoutstien]

Not at all. They are as cool as they seem.

So, a very specific, fairly oddball, build, that needs an artificer in the party or to Mc artificer?

Lol wut. This is a wild enough claim I’m gonna have to ask for you to back it up. Because I’ve literally never seen any Wizard played as a tank nor heard anyone talk about their tank Wizard, over at least a dozen I’ve DMd for, hundreds of wizards I’ve read about online or heard about in person, nor dozens of wizards played on actual plays.

Not really that odd of a claim. Full casters can greatly impact the momentum of an encounter so tactical savvy NPCs are going to do their best to prevent them from doing so. Most "tank" PCs lack the ability to control more than 1-3 targets and have few tools to prevent ranged attacks and spells from targeting others so the wizard will have to deal that. the wizard will end up tanking and dealing with mitigation on regular basis. Same reason parties focus on the enemy casters first the majority of the time.
Past that purpose built wizard tanks are some of the best in the game. Armored evokers and abjuration wizards can usually out preform those purpose built for the task.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I wouldn’t, for sure. IME, even at those levels, wizards have a ton of other spells and only ever gets so many slots. Like it hurts to burn a 3rd level slot on shield when you could use it for Counterspell.



But they just have situational AC, that isn’t a tank, by itself, and Artificer can get comparable armor without spending spell slots.

I see a lot of attacks fall between 8 and 25. It seems to me that only a game where combat is the only time spells are needed could see “tank” wizards.

THat would be odd, since they responded to me asking what Wizard could have AC 20 at level 2.

You run in open doors. I just wanted to explain why people think the wizard feel tanky. Usually because many adventuring days play towards their strengths. As soon as you get to 2nd level slots to burn on the shield spell, things are getting bad for the wizard.

An abjurer or a bladesinger however is quite tanky. But again, mostly if they are not challenged.
The artificer, the fighter or the monk and the rogue can endure much more over the course of a day, even the barbarian, although they run on limited daily ressources.