Elf or Human , whos better?
- Thread starter young_dwarf
- Start date
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I was a little hard on the elves above, I admit. I was reacting against the whole 'elves are the best!' movement. 
D&D elves do suffer from a bit of a conception problem. On one level they're faery forest spirits, on another the great warlike nations whose dedication to the art of fighting is quite astonishing. Effectively, they're like hill-fairy-folk and Tolkien's elves-as-kick-ass-archers all rolled into one. On one level they're playful and free and appreciative of the heartbeat of magic, on the other they're hardcore militant warriors with a superiority complex.
I really think elves, like any other race, have their place. They're not better than everyone at everything (which is what I hear all too often), but they're better than a few people at a select group of things, such as being back-line warriors, making 'virtually pointless but pretty' magic items, etc.
IMC, the fact that elves drop more commonly from diseases, tend to stay back in battle, generally lurk at the edges, and only warily tread into the open (and only when they have the clear advantage) makes many people in the world regard them as cowards. Combine that with their penchant for getting over-emotional, their superiority complex, their love of completely non-functional art, and their obsession with asthetics (all of which D&D elves have pretty hardcore), and you have something that IMC has been regarded as weak, fearful, and too wrapped up in themselves. They like to dance (prancy, poncing), they like to do battle at a distance (limp-wristed, captain of the wus patrol), and they appreciate beauty to an extreme degree (tiara-wearing). This, of course, leads to the same problem every race has (though elves, of course, will refuse to acknowledge.
): A bad stereotype.
It's a stereotype. Just as, foriegners and those different have been stereotyped for years: seeds in truth, exaggerated and applied universally and so hyperbolic as to be unfounded. Yet still, you meet some people who more closely fit it than you'd expect.
I'll play an elf in the right conditions (when I want to play a character who views combat as an art, with a strange sort of detatchment, or am feeling egotistical). It's just that I have to react against those who view elves as the pinnacle of what they should be, without flaw, and without unkewl powers. I just spout out the stereotype.
I'd be the first to call all dwarf women bearded she-dictators who wear iron aprons and bake stone for dinner. Or gnomish inventors batcrap insane maniacs without their heads grounded in reality. Or halflings kleptomaniacal lazy greedy little twerps. Or orcs...well, I guess Orcs don't really need more insults.
It's just that elves need to be braught down a few notches, and playing up the negative stereotype is a good way to do that (and can relate to how elves are viewed in a campaign world, as well).
Anyhoo, babble over, I'm just excited I got in someone's sig.
D&D elves do suffer from a bit of a conception problem. On one level they're faery forest spirits, on another the great warlike nations whose dedication to the art of fighting is quite astonishing. Effectively, they're like hill-fairy-folk and Tolkien's elves-as-kick-ass-archers all rolled into one. On one level they're playful and free and appreciative of the heartbeat of magic, on the other they're hardcore militant warriors with a superiority complex.
I really think elves, like any other race, have their place. They're not better than everyone at everything (which is what I hear all too often), but they're better than a few people at a select group of things, such as being back-line warriors, making 'virtually pointless but pretty' magic items, etc.
IMC, the fact that elves drop more commonly from diseases, tend to stay back in battle, generally lurk at the edges, and only warily tread into the open (and only when they have the clear advantage) makes many people in the world regard them as cowards. Combine that with their penchant for getting over-emotional, their superiority complex, their love of completely non-functional art, and their obsession with asthetics (all of which D&D elves have pretty hardcore), and you have something that IMC has been regarded as weak, fearful, and too wrapped up in themselves. They like to dance (prancy, poncing), they like to do battle at a distance (limp-wristed, captain of the wus patrol), and they appreciate beauty to an extreme degree (tiara-wearing). This, of course, leads to the same problem every race has (though elves, of course, will refuse to acknowledge.
): A bad stereotype.It's a stereotype. Just as, foriegners and those different have been stereotyped for years: seeds in truth, exaggerated and applied universally and so hyperbolic as to be unfounded. Yet still, you meet some people who more closely fit it than you'd expect.
I'll play an elf in the right conditions (when I want to play a character who views combat as an art, with a strange sort of detatchment, or am feeling egotistical). It's just that I have to react against those who view elves as the pinnacle of what they should be, without flaw, and without unkewl powers. I just spout out the stereotype.
I'd be the first to call all dwarf women bearded she-dictators who wear iron aprons and bake stone for dinner.
Or gnomish inventors batcrap insane maniacs without their heads grounded in reality. Or halflings kleptomaniacal lazy greedy little twerps. Or orcs...well, I guess Orcs don't really need more insults. It's just that elves need to be braught down a few notches, and playing up the negative stereotype is a good way to do that (and can relate to how elves are viewed in a campaign world, as well).
Anyhoo, babble over, I'm just excited I got in someone's sig.
Munchkin reasons
Depends on which class you choose. A elven wizard proficient with a longbow and all those nifty spells is really nice. True strike, cat's grace, magic weapon...
But then again, you can never go wrong with a human fighter. That extra feat is superb. Or a human rogue, getting more than 40 skills points at 1st level is the best.
On a roleplaying note, I'd day humans are easier to play. Elves aren't usually impulsive and decisive. They supposedly tend to be more contemplative. They long lives allows them to take the time to think things through befire acting.
They certainly are not tree hugging wusses. I play in FR and being attacked by the Eldreth Veluthra in the middle of Cormanthor scared the crap out of my human cleric. Besides drow are elves, and I don't see anyone calling them sissies.
Half-elves suck. Although, I don't consider myself a munchkin or powergamer, I'd never pick such a weak race. It has no perks at all. That bonus against enchantments and low-light vision just doesn't cut it. The bonuses of Spot, Listen and Search are just not that useful, considering humans can get Alertness or just buy some ranks in those skills with their extra points. Roleplay wise either I don't see the advantages of playing a half-elf. In the classical fantasy setting, half-elves aren't necessarily discriminated against, and who can complain, one of your parents is almost imortal. If I want to play a torment half-breed, I'd play a half-orc.
Depends on which class you choose. A elven wizard proficient with a longbow and all those nifty spells is really nice. True strike, cat's grace, magic weapon...
But then again, you can never go wrong with a human fighter. That extra feat is superb. Or a human rogue, getting more than 40 skills points at 1st level is the best.
On a roleplaying note, I'd day humans are easier to play. Elves aren't usually impulsive and decisive. They supposedly tend to be more contemplative. They long lives allows them to take the time to think things through befire acting.
They certainly are not tree hugging wusses. I play in FR and being attacked by the Eldreth Veluthra in the middle of Cormanthor scared the crap out of my human cleric. Besides drow are elves, and I don't see anyone calling them sissies.
Half-elves suck. Although, I don't consider myself a munchkin or powergamer, I'd never pick such a weak race. It has no perks at all. That bonus against enchantments and low-light vision just doesn't cut it. The bonuses of Spot, Listen and Search are just not that useful, considering humans can get Alertness or just buy some ranks in those skills with their extra points. Roleplay wise either I don't see the advantages of playing a half-elf. In the classical fantasy setting, half-elves aren't necessarily discriminated against, and who can complain, one of your parents is almost imortal. If I want to play a torment half-breed, I'd play a half-orc.
Arani Korden
First Post
Re: Munchkin reasons
I am. Drow are a bunch of whiny Goth sissy losers who like to pretend to be all evil and stuff, but spend their time hiding in the basement of the world rather than getting a life.
muhcashin said:
I am. Drow are a bunch of whiny Goth sissy losers who like to pretend to be all evil and stuff, but spend their time hiding in the basement of the world rather than getting a life.
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
Buttercup said:
One of the most fun games I've DMed was right after a game of all Elves. My campaign world is mostly Elf/Human dominated, so there are a lot of Elves around. Well, after it finished...I told the players to roll up new characters...All Dwarves. It was so fun to see how they completely changed thier play style from Elves to Dwarves.
I gotta agree with Datt - Dwarves it is!!!
However, that being said, I'm having a wail of a time with an elven fighter/paladin I've been running in a PbEM campaign for the last 7 years (now a mighty 8th level - but almost 9th!!).
One thing I haven't seen yet which might help tip the balance for some people is the ol' Elven trance (see race description in PHB). Only requiring 4 hours 'rest' is great when in hostile areas and you need as many hands on deck as you can when something goes bump in the night. Makes it real easy to stack watches to keep the level of alertness up.
However, that being said, I'm having a wail of a time with an elven fighter/paladin I've been running in a PbEM campaign for the last 7 years (now a mighty 8th level - but almost 9th!!).
One thing I haven't seen yet which might help tip the balance for some people is the ol' Elven trance (see race description in PHB). Only requiring 4 hours 'rest' is great when in hostile areas and you need as many hands on deck as you can when something goes bump in the night. Makes it real easy to stack watches to keep the level of alertness up.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
You asked for it, here it is!
Not An Elf
Race: Half-Celestial Gelatinous Cube
* Huge Ooze
* Racial Hit Dice: 4d10+20
* Base Speed: 15 ft., Fly 30 ft. (Good)
* Racial Attack Bonus: +3
* Racial Save Bonus: Fort+1, Ref +1, Will +1
* Racial Skill Points: 8+Int Modifier x 7 [Awakened Only]
* Natural Weapons: Slam 1d6 + 1d6 acid
* Natural Armor Bonus: +1
* Special Attacks: Engulf (DC 11 + 1/2 HD), Paralysis (DC 10 + Con Modifier + 1/2 HD), Transparent, (If Wis is 8 or greater: Aid, Detect Evil, Bless, Protection from Evil (x3/day))
* Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft.; Low-Light Vision, Immunities (Mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, acid, cold, disease, electricity), +4 vs. Poison
* Ability Score Modifiers: +4 Str, -8 Dex, +8 Con, No Int(+2), -6 Wis, -6 Cha [NOTE: An AWAKEN spell grants the ooze 3d6 Wis, Cha, and Int. It's Int score recieves the +2 bonus if awakened, and they get skill points. If left unawakened, they do not recieve skill points]
* ECL +8 (+3 Half-Celestial, +1 Gelatinous Cube, +4 HD)
Class: Cleric 1
* +2 Fort, +2 Will
* Spells per Day = 3/1+1
* 2+Int Modifier skill points
* 2 Domains
* Turn/Rebuke Undead
-----------------
EXAMPLE:
"Not An Elf," Half-Celestial Awakened Gelatinous Cube (Huge Outsider) Cleric of Saint Cuthbert, LG
* SPEED: 15 ft, Fly 30 ft. (good)
* ABILITIES: Str 18 (+4), Dex 1 (-5), Con 21 (+5), Int 10 (0), Wis 19(+4), Cha 12 (+1)
* HIT DICE: 4d10+40 and 1d8+8, +3 (54 hp)
* BASE ATTACK BONUS: +3 (+3 racial)
* BASE ARMOR CLASS: 4 (-2 Size, -2 Dex, +1 natural)
* TOTAL ARMOR CLASS: 13 (4 base, +9 Armor)
* ATTACKS: Slam +5 melee (1d6 + 1d6 acid) or Masterwork Morningstar +6 melee (1d8)
* SPECIAL ATTACKS: Engulf (DC 13), Paralysis (DC 18)
* DEFENSES: Immunities (Mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, acid, cold, disease, electricity), +4 to saves vs. poison, +1 Specialty Full Plate (+9 AC)
* MISC: Transparent, Blindsight 60 ft., Low-Light Vision, Aid, Detect Evil, Bless, Protection from Evil x 3, Turn Undead, Smite (+4 attack, +1 damage), Protective Ward (+1)
* FEATS: Toughness, Improved Initiative
* SKILLS: Diplomacy +9, Heal +12, Knowledge (religion) +7, Intimidate +8, Climb +11, Profession (judge) +11, Listen +11, Seach +7
* SPELLS PREPARED (3/2+1):
0-Level:Guidance, Light, Virtue
1st-Level: Shield of Faith, Entropic Shield, Sanctuary
There he is, boys, your alternative to an elf!
Not An Elf
Race: Half-Celestial Gelatinous Cube
* Huge Ooze
* Racial Hit Dice: 4d10+20
* Base Speed: 15 ft., Fly 30 ft. (Good)
* Racial Attack Bonus: +3
* Racial Save Bonus: Fort+1, Ref +1, Will +1
* Racial Skill Points: 8+Int Modifier x 7 [Awakened Only]
* Natural Weapons: Slam 1d6 + 1d6 acid
* Natural Armor Bonus: +1
* Special Attacks: Engulf (DC 11 + 1/2 HD), Paralysis (DC 10 + Con Modifier + 1/2 HD), Transparent, (If Wis is 8 or greater: Aid, Detect Evil, Bless, Protection from Evil (x3/day))
* Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft.; Low-Light Vision, Immunities (Mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, acid, cold, disease, electricity), +4 vs. Poison
* Ability Score Modifiers: +4 Str, -8 Dex, +8 Con, No Int(+2), -6 Wis, -6 Cha [NOTE: An AWAKEN spell grants the ooze 3d6 Wis, Cha, and Int. It's Int score recieves the +2 bonus if awakened, and they get skill points. If left unawakened, they do not recieve skill points]
* ECL +8 (+3 Half-Celestial, +1 Gelatinous Cube, +4 HD)
Class: Cleric 1
* +2 Fort, +2 Will
* Spells per Day = 3/1+1
* 2+Int Modifier skill points
* 2 Domains
* Turn/Rebuke Undead
-----------------
EXAMPLE:
"Not An Elf," Half-Celestial Awakened Gelatinous Cube (Huge Outsider) Cleric of Saint Cuthbert, LG
* SPEED: 15 ft, Fly 30 ft. (good)
* ABILITIES: Str 18 (+4), Dex 1 (-5), Con 21 (+5), Int 10 (0), Wis 19(+4), Cha 12 (+1)
* HIT DICE: 4d10+40 and 1d8+8, +3 (54 hp)
* BASE ATTACK BONUS: +3 (+3 racial)
* BASE ARMOR CLASS: 4 (-2 Size, -2 Dex, +1 natural)
* TOTAL ARMOR CLASS: 13 (4 base, +9 Armor)
* ATTACKS: Slam +5 melee (1d6 + 1d6 acid) or Masterwork Morningstar +6 melee (1d8)
* SPECIAL ATTACKS: Engulf (DC 13), Paralysis (DC 18)
* DEFENSES: Immunities (Mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, polymorphing, critical hits, acid, cold, disease, electricity), +4 to saves vs. poison, +1 Specialty Full Plate (+9 AC)
* MISC: Transparent, Blindsight 60 ft., Low-Light Vision, Aid, Detect Evil, Bless, Protection from Evil x 3, Turn Undead, Smite (+4 attack, +1 damage), Protective Ward (+1)
* FEATS: Toughness, Improved Initiative
* SKILLS: Diplomacy +9, Heal +12, Knowledge (religion) +7, Intimidate +8, Climb +11, Profession (judge) +11, Listen +11, Seach +7
* SPELLS PREPARED (3/2+1):
0-Level:Guidance, Light, Virtue
1st-Level: Shield of Faith, Entropic Shield, Sanctuary
There he is, boys, your alternative to an elf!
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