Feign Death Practice -- level 8 ... ummmm Why???

[Garthanos]

One of the things I want to do with my Martial Power III is fix the martial practices and make them worthwhile. Ok, now this is the same level as a resurrection....ummm can anyone
explain the thinking behind it.


I can make a very narrow sort of bluff maybe using endurance if I do not have bluff skill... but why? to infiltrate a morgue? The best scenario I can come up with is to gain surprise on a curious enemy.
Is that honestly 8 levels even in 1e it was a level 6 monk ability then Not that levels meant
the same then.

 

[Joshua Randall]

The by-the-book Martial Practices (and Rituals for that matter) are all over the map in terms of Level vs. Actual Usefulness.

You found a dud. Lower its level, make it much stronger, or just ditch it. (I don't think this even needs to be a Martial Practice, personally.)

 

[Garthanos]

The by-the-book Martial Practices (and Rituals for that matter) are all over the map in terms of Level vs. Actual Usefulness.

You found a dud. Lower its level, make it much stronger, or just ditch it. (I don't think this even needs to be a Martial Practice, personally.)

A dud indeed.... note even if I translate it to level 5 (This would analogous by a quirky little formula I like to a 1e level 6 ability) I am not thinking Gygax was ahem more accurate about the value of abilities like this because one got it at level 6 did not mean it was more powerful than 1 you got at level 1.

I actually have a reason for wanting it this is to invoke properly a martial monk. I have "trance/sleeping in the saddle" as a level 1 homemade martial practice which allows one to gain advanced sleep capability analogous to alarm in value. (and I have a fix for the alarm ritual to make it more useable too)

Perhaps if I make it an advancement on that martial practice which one gets automatically at level 5 if one has the above. That would be the ultimate fix... it is no longer costs more so its value is now as much a flavor addition of no great impact.

 

[Garthanos]

Possible Fixes

My son suggested and we might have come up with some possible ideas for rescuing the practice.

• You can assume the state preternaturally quick ie with a minor action by spending a healing surge (otherwise no cost?)
• While in this state you do not need to make dying saves (-- mayhaps you gain an auto save after x time?)
• ongoing untyped damage like bleeding are also suspended (some other conditions may as well)
• You do not need to breath (or more accurately 1 breath might last 20 minutes or similar)
• if you spend at least 5 minutes in this self induced coma like state you can regain hit points equal to the healing surge you spent to enter the state.
• Make it level 3

The monk also had self heal ability....

 

[Garthanos]

My son suggested and we might have come up with some possible ideas for rescuing the practice.

• You can assume the state preternaturally quick ie with a minor action by spending a healing surge (otherwise no cost?)
• While in this state you do not need to make dying saves (-- mayhaps you gain an auto save after x time?)
• ongoing untyped damage like bleeding are also suspended (some other conditions may as well)
• You do not need to breath (or more accurately 1 breath might last 20 minutes or similar)
• if you spend at least 5 minutes in this self induced coma like state you can regain hit points equal to the healing surge you spent to enter the state.
• Make it level 3

The monk also had self heal ability....

if you have already spent your second wind AND with no healer handy .... maybe

 

[MoutonRustique]

My son suggested and we might have come up with some possible ideas for rescuing the practice.

• You can assume the state preternaturally quick ie with a minor action by spending a healing surge (otherwise no cost?)
• While in this state you do not need to make dying saves (-- mayhaps you gain an auto save after x time?)
• ongoing untyped damage like bleeding are also suspended (some other conditions may as well)
• You do not need to breath (or more accurately 1 breath might last 20 minutes or similar)
• if you spend at least 5 minutes in this self induced coma like state you can regain hit points equal to the healing surge you spent to enter the state.
• Make it level 3

I would see this at ~6 with the following :
- no more than 1 minute to "cast"
- it lasts for a period of time based on check (exponential curve)
- you don't need to breath or eat or drink for the duration
- you gain no benefits from "resting"
- you do not make any saves
- all effects affecting you are suspended (poisons, curses, diseases)
- you may extended the duration of this "stance" by the same amount by spending a healing surge
- ... and here's the big one (that some can't accept) : you can impart this to a willing subject (check becomes Diplomacy)

rules clarification: when you come out of the trance, you suffer effects normally without any sort of "catch up".

This can now be used as a form of "stasis" to avoid curses, diseases or such to get worse. It can serve as a plot device for a whole slew of classics : survive drowning, sleep of kings, "rest" while the party finds the cure, etc.

 

[Garthanos]

A Quirkie Conversion Formula

Here is the Quirkie formula I have converting 1e levels to 4e levels.
and why....

Paragon level 11 is basically 1e named level (usually around 9).

A level 1 hero in 4e feels as competent and robust as a level 3 or 4 character from 1e (Note Gygax and Arneson both had house rules where they began their characters at levels 3 and 4.)

Additionally an AD&D fighter and monk and others rather conceptually capped out in significant fashions around levels 17 or 18. as does their charts. (although their competency arguably lagged behind that of casters significantly earlier)

I will admit the above are somewhat subjective.

------ A fairly simple pair of linear equation results. -----

1e character level = (7 + 4e level)/2;

or the opposite direction

4e character level = 2 * 1e character level - 7 ;

And yeah its probably not valuable for much but I think it gives a picture

 

[Garthanos]

Itemizing my response more on this.

I would see this at ~6 with the following :

I think level 6 is too high at level 6 one can simply remove a disease.

- no more than 1 minute to "cast"

Nods that fits the flavor

- it lasts for a period of time based on check (exponential curve)

akin to delay affliction nods -> which I think needs to be the core empowered effect of this practice.

- you don't need to breath or eat or drink for the duration

appropriate flavor wise... well the food items not spent are a minor discount
and may be sort of special effect for not being afflicted by for instance desert deprivations

and the not breathing has a situational but awesome feel whether its powerful or not.

- you gain no benefits from "resting"

that is a hell of a price err huge if you think about it especially once you hit the long rest
level you just spent all your ability resources.

- you do not make any saves
- all effects affecting you are suspended (poisons, curses, diseases)

delay affliction in a nut shell

- you may extended the duration of this "stance" by the same amount by spending a healing surge

not significantly different than waking for a minute and resuming, but better feeling so yeah.

- ... and here's the big one (that some can't accept) : you can impart this to a willing subject (check becomes Diplomacy)

Completely on board with using Diplomacy or Healing for affecting a willing subject (immediately thought real world hypnosis)

rules clarification: when you come out of the trance, you suffer effects normally without any sort of "catch up".

This can now be used as a form of "stasis" to avoid curses, diseases or such to get worse. It can serve as a plot device for a whole slew of classics : survive drowning, sleep of kings, "rest" while the party finds the cure, etc.

Perhaps an Acupressure like strike to get your ally to enter a death trance after you examine them to discover the perfect spot (healing for this)

Edit : added lots more comments

 

[Garthanos]

Diplomacy works too for basic real world like hypnosis techniques (requires willing subject and other details involved)

You could use Diplomacy doe to give some Bluff benefits for someone trying to disguise as someone else as well.

Psychiatric Treatment* I have been using insight but will now add diplomacy to as well, thank you.

*Psychiatric Treatment allows one to Delay (Mental) Affliction

 

[Garthanos]

There is an ability that allows one to delay affliction which serves to implement a better part of the functionality in a stasis trance .it is only level 4 it may not have everything but it leaves a fully functioning party member who helps the party find the cure for his problem without worrying about activity making him suffer, I do think it argues for something closer to this level. Note the delay affliction duration is huge...

Recouping the hps of the healing surge I mentioned earlier is a way to reduce the performance cost but if your hit points are not actually down the benefits of self triggered healing in the trance is not needed either.