D&D 5E How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence

[Mort]

For me personally, it's not just that the Twilight Cleric comes with a very powerful package of abilities, but also that the fluff of the subclass is, on the whole, very broad, to the point of being essentially three or so different ideas packaged into one.

Yeah, that certainly tracks. It's like the designers went "hey, let's just throw all the good features into one subclass and see if anyone notices..."

I mean the 8th level feature is divine strikes, which allows you to add 1d8 to a melee attack. It's not even that it's that powerful, it's just another thing that some cleric subclasses get that this one gets too - because why not.

 

[Mort]

Yeah, that certainly tracks. It's like the designers went "hey, let's just throw all the good features into one subclass and see if anyone notices..."

I mean the 8th level feature is divine strikes, which allows you to add 1d8 to a melee attack. It's not even that it's that powerful, it's just another thing that some cleric subclasses get that this one gets too - because why not.

As for fix to the aura.

1. Have the temp HP or condition removal NOT be automatic. Either :

a. Make the assignment of the HP (or condition removal) take the clerics bonus action - and only assign to one target; OR

b. have anyone who enters/starts in the aura have to use a reaction to gain the benefit.

Both impose a significant enough action economy cost and the first, really slow the ability down while still being potent.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Too bad the book is already written. There's nothing to be done. Everyone has no choice but to play it as is.

Warning other DMs (like me) that they are OP does serve a purpose. I now know to nerf them before allowing them at my table.

 

[Aldarc]

"Balance" is an illusion, especially if you expect the rules to provide it. Balance is created by the Dungeon Master, and it means giving each PC and player a chance to shine in the spotlight to do something cool.

This is essentially the Oberoni Fallacy.

 

[Mort]

This is essentially the Oberoni Fallacy.

It really amazes me how many people like to say "it's not a problem because the DM can fix it."

Which, if true, essentially means EVERY game system is perfect.

 

[FrozenNorth]

That's fine though, not every encounter should. But in other encounters this ability may not be as powerful as it otherwise seems as the cleric can be otherwise dealt with. I'm not saying it isn't, damage mitigation can be incredible, but it is also something that can be dealt with in some encounters whereas in others it's the cleric's chance to shine.

It seems to be that this is backwards. Having a high AC character spamming thp (and decent damage) means that they will shine in most encounters, with all of the other characters only able to shine in encounters that specifically shut down the cleric.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I mean the 8th level feature is divine strikes, which allows you to add 1d8 to a melee attack. It's not even that it's that powerful, it's just another thing that some cleric subclasses get that this one gets too - because why not.

Roughly half the cleric subclasses get Divine Strikes at level 8 adding d8 to their single melee attack, the other half get potent spellcasting, adding d8 to their cantrip damage. There is as far as I'm aware no cleric subclass without one of these; of all the things to worry about from the Twilight Cleric this isn't one.

 

[Mort]

Roughly half the cleric subclasses get Divine Strikes at level 8 adding d8 to their single melee attack, the other half get potent spellcasting, adding d8 to their cantrip damage. There is as far as I'm aware no cleric subclass without one of these; of all the things to worry about from the Twilight Cleric this isn't one.

It's not a worry - it's not even that powerful (potent spellcasting would be more powerful for this class).

It's just that nothing gets skimped with this subclass.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It really amazes me how many people like to say "it's not a problem because the DM can fix it."

Which, if true, essentially means EVERY game system is perfect.

Yes?

You can never balance D&D because players are not all equally skilled. Attempts to "balance" games sucks the life and variety out of them. Embrace the chaos of unbalance!

 

[Mort]

Yes?

You can never balance D&D because players are not all equally skilled. Attempts to "balance" games sucks the life and variety out of them. Embrace the chaos of unbalance!

This comment in no way addresses the fact that the DMs ability to deal with an issue doesn't make it not an issue.

Whether balance is desirable is an interesting question, but it's not the one I was responding to.