Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
Yay Update!
Tenth sense has amusing Special text
Thelemic Effect is confusing, but awesome.
Tenth sense has amusing Special text
Thelemic Effect is confusing, but awesome.
Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION
- Thread starter Upper_Krust
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Fieari
Explorer
Okay, time to get picky! Note that as is, the entire feat list is readable and usable. These are just little tiny editor-type issues I have.
Epic Feats only:
Blood Rage (#6): "Your when reduced" is grammatically nonsensical. I can get what you're trying to say, but fix this anyway please.
Divine Providence (#13): "re-roll any dice roll" should be "any die roll", I think.
Divine Retribution (#14): "...against an opponent for ever turn attempt..." should be "for every" or better yet, "for each". Also, "deities" should be "deity's". Possessive, not plural.
Divine Wisdom (#16): Again, "deity's" not "deities".
Double Standards (#17): Question, is the additional attack made at a penalty, like an iterative attack? Or is this additional attack made at your highest bonus?
Eclectic Strike (#20): Nitpick- "Benefit" should be bold. Yes, this is picky.
Epic Shield Focus (#24): I would prefer that you reword the special line to something like "This shield bonus may stack with the shield bonus from only one single other source." This may still not be the best way to word it. The way it's written now is understandable, it just reads a little awkward IMHO.
Etheric Double (#26): "remote" should be "remotely"
Malifiecus (#65): Feat isn't finished. The benefit isn't described.
Mantic Frenzy (#66): Nitpick- "...you cannot do anything, other than..." ditch the comma here.
Mastery of the Charge (#67): The name is too awesome for the weak benefit it gives you.
Mathesis (#68): It occurs to me that given the prerequisits for this feat, it's impossible to fail the DC you give here even on a nat 1 (skills don't auto-fail on nat 1s).
Nosodic (#72): The more I think about this feat, the more I agree with others that it's too powerful. Maybe as a Divine ability instead? Possibly even transcendant, to be honest. Furthermore, you might want to consider classifying this as a [Vile] ability. Oh, and similarly to the Cancer Mage, allow it to still effect charisma, but have flavor text specifying that appearance changes still take place.
Phrenology (#77): Not a mistake, I just wanted to comment that if you have phrenology, it would be amusing to also include retro-phrenology. Heehee. Hit someone on the head with a hammer to change their personality.
Piercing Shot (#78): When does the missile ever stop? Shouldn't there be a penalty to the attack roll to hit additional foes?
Shield Mastery (#85): Would not being able to use a 2-handed weapon be considered a penalty? That is to say, would this allow you to go "Greatsword and board"?
Sideways Stealing (#86): It just occured to me... shouldn't you set a DC modifier for attempting this? I mean, what if you're trying to steal the color of a princess's eyes while she's awake and trying to resist your efforts?
Silent Song (#87): Does this allow you to use bardic music in the area of a "Silence" spell? As written, it would seem not, but the name suggests it should. Either way, could you specify the answer outright in the text?
Sixth Sense (#88): The benefit line isn't finished.
Sky Walker (#89): What manueverability?
Stellar Music (#94): Same issue as Silent Song.
Subtle Body (#96): "such as water, flimsy tree branches" should be "such as water or flimsy tree branches."
Superior Charge (#97): Instead of a "normal" line describing another feat, you should just say that this replaces (or perhaps "overlaps with") Spirited Charge.
Three-Weapon Mastery (#110): The "Normal" line is incomplete.
Uncanny Power Attack (#116): The description (flavor) line is incomplete.
Note: I like table 4-7. The only thing I could ask more from it would be that it be a complete list, but then, the list as it is is still awesome.
Feat Packages: The shaded background is out of sync with the lists.
Epic Feats only:
Blood Rage (#6): "Your when reduced" is grammatically nonsensical. I can get what you're trying to say, but fix this anyway please.
Divine Providence (#13): "re-roll any dice roll" should be "any die roll", I think.
Divine Retribution (#14): "...against an opponent for ever turn attempt..." should be "for every" or better yet, "for each". Also, "deities" should be "deity's". Possessive, not plural.
Divine Wisdom (#16): Again, "deity's" not "deities".
Double Standards (#17): Question, is the additional attack made at a penalty, like an iterative attack? Or is this additional attack made at your highest bonus?
Eclectic Strike (#20): Nitpick- "Benefit" should be bold. Yes, this is picky.
Epic Shield Focus (#24): I would prefer that you reword the special line to something like "This shield bonus may stack with the shield bonus from only one single other source." This may still not be the best way to word it. The way it's written now is understandable, it just reads a little awkward IMHO.
Etheric Double (#26): "remote" should be "remotely"
Malifiecus (#65): Feat isn't finished. The benefit isn't described.
Mantic Frenzy (#66): Nitpick- "...you cannot do anything, other than..." ditch the comma here.
Mastery of the Charge (#67): The name is too awesome for the weak benefit it gives you.
Mathesis (#68): It occurs to me that given the prerequisits for this feat, it's impossible to fail the DC you give here even on a nat 1 (skills don't auto-fail on nat 1s).
Nosodic (#72): The more I think about this feat, the more I agree with others that it's too powerful. Maybe as a Divine ability instead? Possibly even transcendant, to be honest. Furthermore, you might want to consider classifying this as a [Vile] ability. Oh, and similarly to the Cancer Mage, allow it to still effect charisma, but have flavor text specifying that appearance changes still take place.
Phrenology (#77): Not a mistake, I just wanted to comment that if you have phrenology, it would be amusing to also include retro-phrenology. Heehee. Hit someone on the head with a hammer to change their personality.
Piercing Shot (#78): When does the missile ever stop? Shouldn't there be a penalty to the attack roll to hit additional foes?
Shield Mastery (#85): Would not being able to use a 2-handed weapon be considered a penalty? That is to say, would this allow you to go "Greatsword and board"?
Sideways Stealing (#86): It just occured to me... shouldn't you set a DC modifier for attempting this? I mean, what if you're trying to steal the color of a princess's eyes while she's awake and trying to resist your efforts?
Silent Song (#87): Does this allow you to use bardic music in the area of a "Silence" spell? As written, it would seem not, but the name suggests it should. Either way, could you specify the answer outright in the text?
Sixth Sense (#88): The benefit line isn't finished.
Sky Walker (#89): What manueverability?
Stellar Music (#94): Same issue as Silent Song.
Subtle Body (#96): "such as water, flimsy tree branches" should be "such as water or flimsy tree branches."
Superior Charge (#97): Instead of a "normal" line describing another feat, you should just say that this replaces (or perhaps "overlaps with") Spirited Charge.
Three-Weapon Mastery (#110): The "Normal" line is incomplete.
Uncanny Power Attack (#116): The description (flavor) line is incomplete.
Note: I like table 4-7. The only thing I could ask more from it would be that it be a complete list, but then, the list as it is is still awesome.
Feat Packages: The shaded background is out of sync with the lists.
Anabstercorian
First Post
CHARITY
Appearance: Part of the immortal is constantly on fire. This represents his need for someone to extinguish him, as an act of charity. I am ON FIRE SOMEONE PUT ME OUT
Anyhow, I'm very much looking forward to the Portfolio's, since they seem to be an important part of the whole 'divinity' thing. If you need any help filling them out, flavor-text wise, I'm open to helpin' out.
Appearance: Part of the immortal is constantly on fire. This represents his need for someone to extinguish him, as an act of charity. I am ON FIRE SOMEONE PUT ME OUT
Anyhow, I'm very much looking forward to the Portfolio's, since they seem to be an important part of the whole 'divinity' thing. If you need any help filling them out, flavor-text wise, I'm open to helpin' out.
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I notice you haven't cleared up the issues I suggested on DF with the Divine Feats, as you said you were going to.
Greater Sunder and Superior Sunder are the same thing.
Perfect Sunder is listed as both a feat and a divine ability.
Superior Cleave's "Normal" line is wrong; normally you cannot move before your cleave attack.
Supreme Toughness; since deities get this for free, they don't need to take it to fulfill prereqs and such, right? And someone with the feat can choose another upon becoming divine, as you mention for abilities later on?
Bane Effect; why should every deity with a hatred for a specific race have to be a ranger? Kurtulmak, for example; dude hates gnomes something fierce, and would love a Gnome-bane Strike, but he's more the sorcerer/rogue type.
Shouldn't Perfect Weapon Focus and Specialization list the Uncanny versions as prerequisites?
Perfect Weapon Specialization's "Normal" line is off.
Postcognition and Precognition don't list any tangible benefits.
Quantum Effect; I'd have it require a Chaotic alignment, due to the random element.
Razor Tongue; what type is the damage?
Self-hypnosis; I would allow them to lower it in order to accept harmless or beneficial mind-affecting effects.
Soldier of Fortune; cool idea, but I thought immortals typically didn't have wealth except for artifacts?
Spell Shot; do the spells still deal damage as a normal missile for the weapon in question?
Superior Power Attack's benefits for a two-handed weapon are missing. I would assume it's a 1:3 ratio?
Superior Summoning is confusing.
Can Thieving Effect target artifacts?
Uncanny Dodge lets you apply twice your Dex bonus to AC?
Uncanny Weapon Focus and Specialization list the same prereqs and benefit.
Unyielding Damage Reduction lists the same benefit as Perfect Damage Reduction.
Can Vengeful Effect be suppressed by the user?
Alter Reality; isn't the free action part a bit much? I would also give it an ability score prerequisite, with Charisma making the most sense.
Apostasy; what if the being using alignment-based effects is of a higher divine tier?
Assimilate; is there a limit on how many scores you can absorb?
Counter Strike; end of the round, or end of your turn?
Doombringer; how long does the reduction last? Or is "maximum" a typo?
Enlightened; I notice sorcerers are still left out in the cold, with no way to know every spell ever.
Why is Extra Portfolio Cosmic, and not Divine?
Martyrdom; I presume that the damage taken by allies is not taken by the immortal with the ability?
Perfect Summoning; again, the "does not increase a monster's hit dice" line is confusing.
Pugnacious; an immortal's damage reduction is based on the level of the template, not HD.
Sanctity; as someone else mentioned, a "Profanity" equivilent for evil creatures (and maybe "Justification" for Lawful and "Anarchist" for Chaotic) would be nice.
Sneaky Critical might, might fit better as Divine than Cosmic. Not sure on this one.
Spell Dissolution is soooooo not worth a Cosmic Ability. The Arcane Strike feat, which is available at 9th level for most builds that would want it, is very nearly as good, giving a +X to hit and +Xd4 damage to every attack in a single round (X being the level of the slot expended, of course). Can't be used with Epic spells, admittedly. Still makes this a total waste.
Storm of Arrows; you meant a full attack against every target in range, right? Otherwise, this sucks out loud.
Thelemic Effect; no save to avoid being erased?
Uncanny Smiting; some smites, like that granted by the Destruction domain, already affect things of any alignment.
Unearthly Power Attack; the damage should be greater for two-handed weapons, but it doesn't say so.
Unearthly Weapon Focus; same benefit as the divine version.
If Astro Effect can get to 100% or above, that's a problem.
Does Digestio just grant ability scores, or everything imaginable?
Natural Damage Induction; do you also lose the benefit of DR that you have by means other than a divinity template, such as Barbarian levels?
Paradox; why Dexterity as a prereq?
Transattack Period; remove the "either," or add something else.
Transmortality; the benefit should read "You cannot be permanently destroyed, even by those of higher divine rank." No need to break it into two sentences.
Ultimate Combat Expertise; has the flavor and prereqs of Ultimate Power Attack.
Ultimate Power Attack; says 8x in the ability, and the table says 10x. The "Special" line dealing with two-handed weapons says 6x.
Ultimate Weapon Specialization; there's a second "benfit" line which is taken from the lower version.
Absolute; the benefits line is incomplete.
Indissoluble; chart says regeneration, ability says fast healing. Which is it?
Infinite Strength; should specify that it cancels out Omnific Toughness, as well as Infinite Constitution. Is Infinite Dex really canceled only by itself?
Omnispective; still blank.
Other than these minor nitpicks, and Fieri said, looking good.
Greater Sunder and Superior Sunder are the same thing.
Perfect Sunder is listed as both a feat and a divine ability.
Superior Cleave's "Normal" line is wrong; normally you cannot move before your cleave attack.
Supreme Toughness; since deities get this for free, they don't need to take it to fulfill prereqs and such, right? And someone with the feat can choose another upon becoming divine, as you mention for abilities later on?
Bane Effect; why should every deity with a hatred for a specific race have to be a ranger? Kurtulmak, for example; dude hates gnomes something fierce, and would love a Gnome-bane Strike, but he's more the sorcerer/rogue type.
Shouldn't Perfect Weapon Focus and Specialization list the Uncanny versions as prerequisites?
Perfect Weapon Specialization's "Normal" line is off.
Postcognition and Precognition don't list any tangible benefits.
Quantum Effect; I'd have it require a Chaotic alignment, due to the random element.
Razor Tongue; what type is the damage?
Self-hypnosis; I would allow them to lower it in order to accept harmless or beneficial mind-affecting effects.
Soldier of Fortune; cool idea, but I thought immortals typically didn't have wealth except for artifacts?
Spell Shot; do the spells still deal damage as a normal missile for the weapon in question?
Superior Power Attack's benefits for a two-handed weapon are missing. I would assume it's a 1:3 ratio?
Superior Summoning is confusing.
Can Thieving Effect target artifacts?
Uncanny Dodge lets you apply twice your Dex bonus to AC?
Uncanny Weapon Focus and Specialization list the same prereqs and benefit.
Unyielding Damage Reduction lists the same benefit as Perfect Damage Reduction.
Can Vengeful Effect be suppressed by the user?
Alter Reality; isn't the free action part a bit much? I would also give it an ability score prerequisite, with Charisma making the most sense.
Apostasy; what if the being using alignment-based effects is of a higher divine tier?
Assimilate; is there a limit on how many scores you can absorb?
Counter Strike; end of the round, or end of your turn?
Doombringer; how long does the reduction last? Or is "maximum" a typo?
Enlightened; I notice sorcerers are still left out in the cold, with no way to know every spell ever.
Why is Extra Portfolio Cosmic, and not Divine?
Martyrdom; I presume that the damage taken by allies is not taken by the immortal with the ability?
Perfect Summoning; again, the "does not increase a monster's hit dice" line is confusing.
Pugnacious; an immortal's damage reduction is based on the level of the template, not HD.
Sanctity; as someone else mentioned, a "Profanity" equivilent for evil creatures (and maybe "Justification" for Lawful and "Anarchist" for Chaotic) would be nice.
Sneaky Critical might, might fit better as Divine than Cosmic. Not sure on this one.
Spell Dissolution is soooooo not worth a Cosmic Ability. The Arcane Strike feat, which is available at 9th level for most builds that would want it, is very nearly as good, giving a +X to hit and +Xd4 damage to every attack in a single round (X being the level of the slot expended, of course). Can't be used with Epic spells, admittedly. Still makes this a total waste.
Storm of Arrows; you meant a full attack against every target in range, right? Otherwise, this sucks out loud.
Thelemic Effect; no save to avoid being erased?
Uncanny Smiting; some smites, like that granted by the Destruction domain, already affect things of any alignment.
Unearthly Power Attack; the damage should be greater for two-handed weapons, but it doesn't say so.
Unearthly Weapon Focus; same benefit as the divine version.
If Astro Effect can get to 100% or above, that's a problem.
Does Digestio just grant ability scores, or everything imaginable?
Natural Damage Induction; do you also lose the benefit of DR that you have by means other than a divinity template, such as Barbarian levels?
Paradox; why Dexterity as a prereq?
Transattack Period; remove the "either," or add something else.
Transmortality; the benefit should read "You cannot be permanently destroyed, even by those of higher divine rank." No need to break it into two sentences.
Ultimate Combat Expertise; has the flavor and prereqs of Ultimate Power Attack.
Ultimate Power Attack; says 8x in the ability, and the table says 10x. The "Special" line dealing with two-handed weapons says 6x.
Ultimate Weapon Specialization; there's a second "benfit" line which is taken from the lower version.
Absolute; the benefits line is incomplete.
Indissoluble; chart says regeneration, ability says fast healing. Which is it?
Infinite Strength; should specify that it cancels out Omnific Toughness, as well as Infinite Constitution. Is Infinite Dex really canceled only by itself?
Omnispective; still blank.
Other than these minor nitpicks, and Fieri said, looking good.
Rhuarc
Explorer
Hey UK mate,
have to say I'm really glad for the work done of chapter 4! Finally almost all powers are finished
Wanted to point out several mistakes and questions as well but all except one are already mentioned by WarDragon, so here the only one:
Uncanny Power Attack and Unearthly Power Attack both require only a touch attack to hit. Guess you are going to change the Uncanny Divine feat.
Cause I'm not very interested in the portfolios I'm really looking forward to the example NPCs and then waiting for Bestiary 2
have to say I'm really glad for the work done of chapter 4! Finally almost all powers are finished
Wanted to point out several mistakes and questions as well but all except one are already mentioned by WarDragon, so here the only one:
Uncanny Power Attack and Unearthly Power Attack both require only a touch attack to hit. Guess you are going to change the Uncanny Divine feat.
Cause I'm not very interested in the portfolios I'm really looking forward to the example NPCs and then waiting for Bestiary 2
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi Angel dude!
I'd rather spend time working on the book than working on estimates.
I think at epic levels you have to embrace the power of the PCs otherwise there is no point playing at those levels. With the power at the disposal of epic PCs its always possible they could win almost any battle in an instant.
Angel of Adventure said:
I'd rather spend time working on the book than working on estimates.
Angel of Adventure said:
I think at epic levels you have to embrace the power of the PCs otherwise there is no point playing at those levels. With the power at the disposal of epic PCs its always possible they could win almost any battle in an instant.
Upper_Krust
Legend
Thanks Fieari mate!
Okay thanks - I will go correct them right away.
Fieari said:
Okay thanks - I will go correct them right away.
Phantom Llama
First Post
Since other people are doing sterling work errating, I have only one thing to say:
Tenth Sense is the greatest ability ever.
Tenth Sense is the greatest ability ever.
Anabstercorian
First Post
It is the most beautiful of all placeholders. 
Ltheb Silverfrond
Explorer
U_K!
Awesome stuff.
Question: Do you plan to spell out the effects of the Oblivion power? It seems a bit open to interpretation.
Awesome stuff.
Question: Do you plan to spell out the effects of the Oblivion power? It seems a bit open to interpretation.
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