D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[GMforPowergamers]

D&D got luck that a whole generation of millennials and zoomers discouraged antinerd antitheatrekid humor to allow TY, Tok Tok, and Twitch to be popular and cultivate a whole alternative media form for D&D.

yup pretty much

it is my hope that this new influx can bring us to a golden age. one where like witchlight and strixhaven show each pillar will be respected.

 

[payn]

A BOATLOAD of stuff was changed after the last public playtest end. And most of these changes are the source of 5e's flaws.


5e is less special.
Mercer is special.

5e got luck that a whole generation of millennials and zoomers discouraged antinerd antitheatrekid humor to allow TY, Tok Tok, and Twitch to be popular and cultivate a whole alternative media form for D&D.

The game dropped in 2014 and a lot of that stuff was still low rated or not even going at the time. One thing that never gets mentioned, I think the open play tests and surveys generated a ton of good will. When the old timers are on board they spread the word. They run games, and the young folks play, listen, and run their own. Combine that with an easy to run casual friendly rule set, and you got something special.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The game dropped in 2014 and a lot of that stuff was still low rated or not even going at the time. One thing that never gets mentioned, I think the open play tests and surveys generated a ton of good will. When the old timers are on board they spread the word. They run games, and the young folks play, listen, and run their own. Combine that with an easy to run casual friendly rule set, and you got something special.

very much the word of mouth is a major benefit it had.

 

[Oofta]

I'll just say this.

When the 5e public playtest ended, fighters still had a skill bonus in 2 of it's 3 subclasses. There were skill manuevers And the one that didn't, the gladiator,had a special flavor that not having a skill bonus was odd.

The designers took out fighter skill bonuses after the playtest was over. They didn't playtest the no-skills fighter again publically.

Then in TCOE, they added skill Maneuvers back in.

This proves that 5e more or less got lucky that D&D streams and D&D YouTube became a thing, GOT became popular, and modern media stopped mocking nerds and geeks hard.

Hate to break it to you but the fact that they made a decision you disagree with proves nothing.

 

[Eric V]

This is a question about the popularity of D&D right now, more than being a question about any specific element of 5E.

It boils down to this: if it wasn't 5E (pick a different edition, it doesn't matter) but all the other circumstances were the same -- a new edition in 2014, references in the media, Critical Role and streaming in general, etc... -- would D&D still be having a major pop-cultural moment?

In other words: is there something special about 5E that created this moment, or does it "just happen to be" that 5E is the current edition?

No, I don't believe so. It's an easy-to-learn edition (compared to most others, I suppose), but I don't think the rules-set that people buy created the moment; the "moment" is a result of a lot of outside forces.

 

[Oofta]

and I get it... you do like fighters and don't like 4e... okay.
now I am still going to post what I want when I want.

and you can try to sell your bridge else where since I explained my theory to you and you ignored it

Several pages ago I mentioned that high level works for me in 5E. It didn't work me for either 3.5 or 4E. I have no idea what my ideas about 4E have to do with the thread topic or the post you were responding to.

I simply get tired of thread hijacking on the same old topic that has nothing to do with the thread topic. I never said anything about what you can or cannot post. That, and the odds of anyone from WOTC paying attention to this forum or making any decisions based on it are slim and none. Last I heard, Slim left town.

 

[Oofta]

I want to laugh becuse everyone says the 6-8 encounters should do it... but then when you say "What if your casters still have slots" the answer is more encounters... BUT for these encounter the casters still have slots.

lets say I have 4 7th level characters in my game and they are acleric a fighter a rogue a wizard not just standard but a bit cliche.

after 7 encounters in the dungeon the wizard has all his 2nd level slots, and 1 1st level slot left and his 3 arcane recoveries... the cleric is WAY better he has only used a few he still has 2 3rd 3 2nd and 3 1st level slots... obviously the rogue and fighter have not gotten time to shine yet because the casters never ran out of spells... how many more encounters do you throw?



big pet peeve of mine when tehy forget that stuff but lately they have done better

When we play we go all caster or no full caster giving us more even of a feel on who gets to shine...

My group is currently 16th level, casters may not run completely out of slots before every long rest, but they do occasionally and are running short on a regular basis. So to say that it can't happen is not true. Should they have fewer slots? I'm not going to make that call because what we have works for us.

Personally I'd like to see a more flexible rest and recovery system but that's a separate topic completely.

 

[Reynard]

Needed a bigger Dungeon.

This is going pretty far afield of the topic, but at this point it seems fine:

Probably the biggest weakness of 5E is that it can't decide whether it is a Dungeon Fantasy game or not. Half od the design choices point toward dungeons, but the other half don't -- and the "culture" presented in the official modules certainly doesn't. You are absolutely right in your comment "needed a bigger dungeon" because the attrition of hit points and spells that "balances" fighters versus casters is built around the dungeon. The PCs should be pulling out when they are spent, hauling whatever treasure they can carry and considering knocking out the torchbearer's knee in order to slow those trogs down.

But not all of 5E embraces that. While we still have wizards and fighters, we also have warlocks and other "short rest" classes. We have too many resources that don't suffer attrition, and we have too many cheap or free abilities that bypass the difficulty in the dungeon and wilderness.

I think D&D needs to decide what it is and excise the mechanics that don't support that. The OSR showed that people do in fact still want resource management and dungeon procedures -- and not just us old farts. But not everyone wants that. The Hickman mode is alive and well today. "Stories" are something a lot of people want -- and not just the new kids. The thing is, D&D has never been good at doing them both well, and I think 5E is particularly bad at the former.

Maybe there is an answer that allows D&D to be both, but I don't think so. Frankly, there is probably more money in the latter, story oriented play, so they should kill those dungeon crawling sacred cows that exist only in diminished form anyway.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Several pages ago I mentioned that high level works for me in 5E. It didn't work me for either 3.5 or 4E. I have no idea what my ideas about 4E have to do with the thread topic or the post you were responding to.

We get it, you vape don't like fighters. Cool. There have already been umpteen threads on the subject.

and I get it... you do like fighters and don't like 4e... okay.
now I am still going to post what I want when I want.

reread the exchange... you posted that you knew my opinion (suggesting I shouldn't keep posting it) so I pointed out I also know yours... so by your logic no need for YOU to post about it,

I simply get tired of thread hijacking on the same old topic that has nothing to do with the thread topic.

you know what... arguments end when one side stop posting.
if no one responded about it, if it wasn't something that had things to go back and forth about will just wither away.

I never said anything about what you can or cannot post.

I simply get tired of thread hijacking on the same old topic that has nothing to do with the thread topic.

yet here we are... again going round and round

That, and the odds of anyone from WOTC paying attention to this forum or making any decisions based on it are slim and none. Last I heard, Slim left town.

and again at no point did I say "Oh chris perkins is going to come to enworld read my post and say 'Oh wow GMforpowergamers has it 100% right lets do it his way" so don't act like I did...

I am not going to shut up just because you disagree. I will continue to speak and bring up my points. IF you wish to discus them feel free... but don't tell me not to post

 

[Reynard]

A BOATLOAD of stuff was changed after the last public playtest end. And most of these changes are the source of 5e's flaws.


5e is less special.
Mercer is special.

5e got luck that a whole generation of millennials and zoomers discouraged antinerd antitheatrekid humor to allow TY, Tok Tok, and Twitch to be popular and cultivate a whole alternative media form for D&D.

Is it possible to get the playtest documents? I was playing Pathfinder pretty heavily at the time and barely paid attention to next. I would be curious to see with 10 years of hindsight what it looked like while in development.