D&D 5E Is Tasha's Broken?

[MGibster]

1. High Elves don't exclusively listen to Cypress Hill.

Pack it up
pack it in
Let me begin
I prefer House of Pain

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think if anyone has a problem with an eight foot fantasy species being stronger than a three foot fantasy species they're being a bit silly.

View attachment 155539

It's not about the species, it's about the individual stand-out hero and the game de-incentivizing certain class/species combinations.

 

[Jer]

I think if anyone has a problem with an eight foot fantasy species being stronger than a three foot fantasy species they're being a bit silly.

It's far more about intelligence, charisma and wisdom than it is about strength. Saying some races are just smarter than others or wiser than others is ... not a good look.

But even with the physical attributes - Strength is the only one that is truly measurable in that way and what it measures doesn't even relate to its in game use. (The idea that lifting capacity makes you hit better in combat or even better at general Athletics is a ridiculous idea - and points to the problem with using attributes the way D&D does anyway).

 

[MGibster]

It's not about the species, it's about the individual stand-out hero and the game de-incentivizing certain class/species combinations.

It's about more than one thing I think. But this argument is the most compelling in favor of floating ASI.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah.

They throw Method Man, Redman, Snoop and Afroman in the playlist too.

I was gonna cast a spell, but I got high.

I was gonna join the adventure to Hell, but I got high.

Now I'm tending bar in town and I know why,

'Cause I got high. 'cause I got high, 'cause I got high.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's about more than one thing I think. But this argument is the most compelling in favor of floating ASI.

For true. People seem to think the gen in character gen stands for genetics and every person in the universe comes into the world with die rolls in 6 statistics that are inherent to how they will grow and develop instead of state generating being the basis for creating an adventurer who is pretty much by definition a weirdo.

 

[Umbran]

Its a matter of philosophy and worldbuilding, not game balance.

If it is a matter of philosophy and worldbulding, and you admit that there are valid philosophies and worldbuilding other than your own personal favorites...

... then you cannot say flat out what it better or worse, other than for yourself. And it would be great for that to be included as you continue to beat that drum.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Re: Half-orc wizards- again, the only reason that +2 makes a difference is for optimization purposes. If the draw of a half-orc wizard is to play against type, the fact that the +2 is elsewhere shouldn't bother a player.

I agree; but I do not assume my preferences are shared by all players of the game.

As far as biological essentialism goes, that gets tossed around a bunch and people seem to use the term in different ways, some of which are a bit of a soft accusation of racism; but I do believe that by having set-by-race ASIs you help reinforce the ways that race is different from the baseline, which is human (at least in my game).

I also think you close a lot of design space by having floating ASIs. What about races with more or fewer starting bonuses and even penalties? In my game, for instance, one potential player race is the kercpa, a squirrel-person that's Tiny; and its starting stat adjustments are Dex +4, Cha +1, and Str -6. Another is the dakon, a smart gorilla; it gets Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +2, and Wis +4; then a bit more for a subrace!

I think I agree with you here: one kind of design space is closed, and another is open. My point is that floating ASIs do not lean into optimization any more than their absence does. Optimization is how some people play the game, regardless of any specific rules.

My preference would be for there to be presumptive adjustments of ability scores (to make NPCs easier and to show where the exceptions lie, etc.), but with the floating ability modifiers that were introduced. i.e. High elves tend to have +2 Dex +2 Int, and so one that doesn't have that is perceived to be different. But that's not the choice they have made.

I accept that. But the choice is fundamentally separate from optimizing.

 

[Malmuria]

Tasha's strikes me as having a lot of "complexity creep." The class abilities all add more things to track, more round-by-round options, more making use of bonus actions and reactions which slow the game down. For example, creation bard "mote of potential":

When the creature uses the Bardic Inspiration die, the mote provides an additional effect based on whether the die benefits an ability check, an attack roll, or a saving throw, as detailed below:

Ability Check. When the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die to add it to an ability check, the creature can roll the Bardic Inspiration die again and choose which roll to use, as the mote pops and emits colorful, harmless sparks for a moment.

Attack Roll. Immediately after the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die to add it to an attack roll against a target, the mote thunderously shatters. The target and each creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or take thunder damage equal to the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die.

Saving Throw. Immediately after the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die and adds it to a saving throw, the mote vanishes with the sound of soft music, causing the creature to gain temporary hit points equal to the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die plus your Charisma modifier (mini mum of 1 temporary hit point).

Players at my table barely remember to use their bardic inspiration to begin with. Now they have to remember the particular effect based on what type of roll they are making. If it's an attack roll, they will have to ask the bard character what their spell save dc is, then rolls will have to made, a small amount of hp deducted from one creature. Or if it's a saving throw, the bard will have to tell you what their cha modifier is, and now you are tracking temporary hp. etc.

 

[Blue]

I think we are simply talking past each other.

You're right. Let's not keep sidetracking this thread.