D&D 5E Is Tasha's Broken?

[Vaalingrade]

Heh, I ignore encumbrance, but that reminded me that the STRONKEST goliath lifts... 30 pounds more than the human with the seneweiest thews.

And as per Clever's thread, is made to look like an adorable infant net to mundane Earth's mightiest.

 

[Umbran]

I wonder if (some) people who staunchly defend racial ASIs secretly think there should be gender ASIs.

Mod Note:
Hey. Insults are not called for. If you want discussion like this, please look for it on some other site.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Now you've got me thinking about magnitude. You (and others) frequently use the extreme example of the difference in strength between goliath and halfling.

But what about cases that aren't so obvious/extreme? How much more charismatic are tieflings? How much more intelligent are gnomes? Because if it's supposed to be proportional, then something is wrong, because goliaths are the same amount stronger than halfings as tieflings are more charismatic than...elves.

So are the bonuses just symbolic, and the amount isn't really meaningful?

I'd say 'abstract representation' rather than symbolic. It represents actual significant difference, but is not simulationist in sense that we could calculate some exact proportion. But yes, I'd except a species based +2 to represent rather significant difference.

But yeah, I definitely agree that it gets way more vague with other stats. Strength and species with massive size differences is the area my disbelief suspenders have the hardest time with. Size related strength caps might be a better way to deal with that though.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Heh, I ignore encumbrance, but that reminded me that the STRONKEST goliath lifts... 30 pounds more than the human with the seneweiest thews."

... are you sure you've got the right races here? The Goliath has

"Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift."​

Which means:

"Size and Strength. Larger Creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny Creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature’s carrying Capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights"​

I'm pretty sure doubling is more than 30 pounds.

 

[Vaalingrade]

... are you sure you've got the right races here? The Goliath has

"Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift."​

Which means:

"Size and Strength. Larger Creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny Creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature’s carrying Capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights"​

I'm pretty sure doubling is more than 30 pounds.

Wait minute...

So you're telling me that the strength of the goliath species is represented best by a non-ASI species trait?

But that's... that's INCONSISTENT... or something. I don't know.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'd say 'abstract representation' rather than symbolic. It represents actual significant difference, but is not simulationist in sense that we could calculate some exact proportion. But yes, I'd except a species based +2 to represent rather significant difference.

But yeah, I definitely agree that it gets way more vague with other stats. Strength and species with massive size differences is the area my disbelief suspenders have the hardest time with. Size related strength caps might be a better way to deal with that though.

The problem here is that Strength (the stat) is simply not the same as strength (physical strength) even within D&D. This is why actual strength as in ability to lift things is in part based on size and with the sole exception in 5e of small = medium you double how much you can lift with each new size category.

But that's just strength. Strength covers a range of things including speed and application. For example climbing and swimming, and your ability to hit. Climbing should not be easier as your size category goes up. Swimming? We have to do odd things here anyway. And accuracy when swinging a weapon? That probably shouldn't scale the way lifting does with size.

 

[James Gasik]

I didn't say it. I personally am fat and weak. Other big, fat guys are fat and strong. Body type ain't everything.

I direct you to the TV tropes 'Acrofatic' entry. And before you say those are fictional, so are goliaths.


These 'contradictions' aren't inherent. They're just preferences influenced by years of tradition.

These rules are for PCs. Most people don't make NPCs with the PC rules. (Don't care about the PH wording, it doesn't matter).

Bam Bam Bigelow was acrofatic! And he was (mostly) real!

 

[Bill Zebub]

Bam Bam Bigelow was acrofatic! And he was (mostly) real!

Don’t forget Rodney Dangerfield performing a Triple Lindy in Back To School.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Let's just agree to disagree. We clearly have very different ways of looking at it, and at this point we'll just talk past each other.

I don’t even see what on Earth your point of view is based on, so yeah, sure.

Goliaths are still known as big, strong guys and a weak one is still against type without Player Character rules on their stats. NPC goliaths can all still be built leaning toward strength.

The PCs are not exemplars of their species; they're individuals who are quite literally 'built different'.

This is the main reason I don’t like the reasoning of the Tasha’s change, even though I like floating ASI’s in general.

The PCs are people. They should not be “build different”, they should be people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's a playstyle

The problem is there are ~5 base playstyls in D&D and the base 5RH edition doesn't support all 5 since it lacks base variants.

5e instead tells the DM to fix it.

If you are going to distill an entire race down to a single word, and that single word happens to be one of the six D&D attributes, then, yeah, you're right. But you're almost willfully making your prophecy come true.

Also, if you define races that way, that means Elves are just "Dextrous Elves" and Halflings are just "Dextrous Halflings", and so your other prophecy has already been fulfilled: there is no difference between races; they are just humans in funny hats.

Thanks, but I think I'll stick with the racial definitions that require entire pages of fluff and are backed up by unique racial abilities.

And yet, the most recent racial write-ups took up far less than an entire page of fluff. Clearly WotC has decided anything more than the bare minimum of description is unnecessary.