D&D 5E Levels Above 10?

[UngeheuerLich]

Is there anything new here in this L&L? Sure most people only played early versions of D&D to 10th level but that was because the game broke down badly after 12th - mainly because of the maths of saves and AC. I am not sure it was a gaming style choice! At least this was the case for me with AD&D and 2nd ed and for 3rd ed for slightly different reasons than maths. This problem was by far less pronounced in 4th ed. Though I felt the 4th ed tiers were overly mechanical, they did indicate interesting shifts in the focus and substance of play.

I am not sure what he means with rituals, that you need to prepare... sounds wrong... i hope they are not trying to silo spells...

 

[Blackbrrd]

I think if they're smart, the mathematical progression past 10th won't be a linear increase, but even flatter than 1st-10th.

Personally, I would't be surprised if they left 11th+ level out for now and decided to "do it down the road" as a seperate book - only to see it never appear (like the 4E DMG support for Epic).

Looks like you and WotC agree on the first element here - even flatter progression past level 10.

I wouldn't have anything against quite slow progression past level 6-7 or so and really slow progression past level 10. I think that would be perfect for heroic gameplay.

As noted in the WotC article, they are taking a page out of AD&D here. Among other things, hp progressed at 1-3hp/level after around level 10. They are also following up on the settling down part of the game.

 

[gyor]

So now we know why they screwed up the last playtest packet!

So now I know the why, don't change my dislike of the new packet and I feel their going about this the wrong way.

Free Rituals will help if done right, but it doesn't help the fact that Character don't get character defining class features after first level.

If they don't fix this Pathfinder will continue to steam roll them.

Deity/Domain choice, Wizard Traditions have little to no bearing on Character progression after first level, and while scheme and fighting style are a little better, its not by much.

And less progression after level 10, thier solution to people not playing past 10 is to give them no reason to do so!

I understand wanting to make things easier for DMs and Players, but this is not the way to do it.

The shear unpopularity of this packet testifies to this.

The Legacy system sounds interesting, like 4e's epic tier and AD&D had a love child.

 

[Grimmjow]

i wouldn't mind playing to level one-hundred if the rules supported it and made it doable. level past ten are not bad at all for me. all this does is set it up so that you can try different characters in the same campaign, but then return to the higher level characters when you need/want too.

 

[Gadget]

I am not sure what he means with rituals, that you need to prepare... sounds wrong... i hope they are not trying to silo spells...

I hope they do silo spells, having to choose between Comprehend Languages and your run-of-the-mill attack spell usually meant no Comprehend Languages unless you outright knew you were going to need it and hadn't already put it on a scroll for just such a situation.

But what I think Mike means here is that if you prepare Comprehend Languages (for a random example, assuming there is a ritual version of the spell) in a spell slot, you can cast the ritual version for free. Presumably, the ritual version would take longer to cast and would not be very likely to be done in combat, but would be useful for the exploration/interaction pillars of game play.

Personally, I'm not sure I like this solution, as it still forces you to choose between Fireball and Phantom Steed, and if I did not spend a slot on the utility spell, what then? Still a gold piece cost? Not an Ideal solution. Maybe I can cast a ritual version by spending some type of fatigue/Hit points? I don't know.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I think if they're smart, the mathematical progression past 10th won't be a linear increase, but even flatter than 1st-10th.

Yeah, if we already have a table in the book, we might as well have more interesting progressions than X/level. Something that's more like a flattening curve would be great and fit in well with the "bounded accuracy" plans they had.

 

[Manbearcat]

Deleted...wrong thread.

 

[Raith5]

I think if they're smart, the mathematical progression past 10th won't be a linear increase, but even flatter than 1st-10th.

I think 11th level is too early for a slowing of progression. I think there is a rich design space in between low level play and epic which needs to be given space. I am thinking here major regional threats: eg Giants, drow, large dragons etc. 4th ed's paragon tier demonstrated, albeit imperfectly, how this space can include large scale combats where terrain becomes really important because abilities like flying are delayed until after 10th level, for example.

 

[Raith5]

I hope they do silo spells, having to choose between Comprehend Languages and your run-of-the-mill attack spell usually meant no Comprehend Languages unless you outright knew you were going to need it and hadn't already put it on a scroll for just such a situation.

But what I think Mike means here is that if you prepare Comprehend Languages (for a random example, assuming there is a ritual version of the spell) in a spell slot, you can cast the ritual version for free. Presumably, the ritual version would take longer to cast and would not be very likely to be done in combat, but would be useful for the exploration/interaction pillars of game play.

Personally, I'm not sure I like this solution, as it still forces you to choose between Fireball and Phantom Steed, and if I did not spend a slot on the utility spell, what then? Still a gold piece cost? Not an Ideal solution. Maybe I can cast a ritual version by spending some type of fatigue/Hit points? I don't know.

I dont quite understand the point of Mearls' ideas here. But I quite like siloing spells if there is someway to expand upon the out of combat spells. And here I think there is a big difference in 4th ed utilities which were defensively combated related and those that were out of combat - mainly exploratory uses of spells.

I quite like the idea of using skill checks to ritualise a spell with there being some risk versus reward with regards to how fast the ritual can be cast.

And i just wish that minor spells like read and detect magic were derived from a skill rather than a spell.

 

[Grimmjow]

what is siloing spells?