D&D General Maybe I was ALWAYs playing 4e... even in 2e

[overgeeked]

all this means is 1pt of damage has to be meat... and even then it can be maybe deadly...

Like I said, either HP is meat or it’s meat adjacent.

if I get stabbed (in real life) it is bad... and I will almost for sure pass out. Will I die? that depends on where I am stabbed and how quickly help can get to me... we use death saves to simulate this.

If you’d like. But it’s still a measure of how much damage the meat sack you’re driving around can take before dying.

It’s not a great abstraction, but it is an abstraction that includes meat.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Like I said, either HP is meat or it’s meat adjacent.

If you’d like. But it’s still a measure of how much damage the meat sack you’re driving around can take before dying.

It’s not a great abstraction, but it is an abstraction that includes meat.

This argument goes round and round in spite of both "sides" acknowledging the actual truth (IMO) - that it is both meat AND not meat at the same time. Or more accurately, some of it is always meat and some of it is clearly not.

The only real argument is HOW MUCH. Reasonable answers can range from "nothing but your last HP" to "a portion of every damage source".

The only (IMO) really strange position is "all of every point of damage" is meat, as if you can get hacked over and over with an axe without having any of those hacks bother you, until you suddenly fall unconscious. In fact, I'd go further and say that the only "wrong" opinion on the subject would include BOTH ENDS.

How much of HP is meat? Neither ALL of it, nor NONE of it. Everything in between? Yes. It's that.

 

[TwoSix]

Honestly, as long as you remember that leveling and gaining HP turns characters into an organless sack of "life energy" that's depleted by being hit and replenished by willpower, magic, and time, D&D hit point rules make perfect sense.

 

[James Gasik]

Look, it's easy. Go watch First Blood Part 2, Rambo. Commando. Die Hard. Predator...just about any 80's action movie. Or really, ANY action movie, since we have these sorts of heroes today, like John Wick. They bleed gallons of blood. They fight effectively while bandaged or stitched up. While tired and beaten. They may move a bit more slowly, or limp a little, but they perservere.

You suffer actual permanent wounds or fall unconscious when the narrative says you do. Just like how you rarely run out of ammo until it's plot-convenient (Mr. Wick avoids this, but it's pretty common).

What would be realistic is not allowed to get in the way of the story. So characters grit their teeth and function on "super-adrenaline". Even if they are rendered temporarily unconscious, they can have a heroic recovery by rolling a 20 on a death save (Samuel L. Jackson does a fine version of this in "The Long Kiss Goodnight").

D&D evokes these sorts of tropes, which were common even back in the 70's, and tales of seemingly superhuman feats abound in myths and legends. Don't get too hung up on "what is realistic" or "what breaks my versimilitude". You are John Carter facing down a small army of Tharks. You are Conan, nailed to the Tree of Woe, waiting for that darned vulture to get close enough for you to bite it's head off.

You're not "Ordinary Guy #17 getting taken out by a sniper in one hit in order to show your platoon that they are in danger". That's what NPC's are for!

Worry about the ramifications of hit point loss when your theme song stops playing.

 

[Krachek]

I think "HP are not meat" is the biggest sticking point for a lot of people. Reason being: if HP are not meat, then why do you die when they run out? Since you die when you run out of HP, clearly they're meat...or at least meat adjacent.

All edition made hit points a mix of physical, mental, luck, will of living. I see no difference between edition for that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The game is the underlying source code for the fiction, not a reflection. Wanting HP to be meat is the same as wanting b's in brackets to be literal bold filters IMO.

 

[James Gasik]

I think it was Mayfair Games that used the term "Hits to Kill". That made it easier (for me) to swallow, and helped me with 4e's Minion rules immensely. What's being tracked here is how many good solid blows you can take before you're passed out in a pool of your own blood. As characters become more experienced, they learn how to turn their bodies, roll with punches, and other techniques that give them more "Hits to Kill", even if their overall toughness and stamina have sharp limits to how much they can improve by.

A rank novice gets stabbed by a spear and goes down. The experienced warrior knows how to react so that the force of the impact is lessened, or, at the very least, nothing vital is punctured.

And what, you were out and got back up? You were in shock, and recovered, that's all.

 

[Shiroiken]

This argument goes round and round in spite of both "sides" acknowledging the actual truth (IMO)

How dare you bring sanity to an internet debate! There can be no compromise, only the crushing of your opponent's spirit!!!

A description you never want to hear from your waiter, I might add.

"We have an excellent meat-like product on the menu tonight."

 

[Jer]

This argument goes round and round in spite of both "sides" acknowledging the actual truth (IMO) - that it is both meat AND not meat at the same time. Or more accurately, some of it is always meat and some of it is clearly not.

One guy I played with back in the day insisted that wounds only happened when you went negative on hit points. His view on these discussions would be that it's all luck until you hit zero hp, after that it's meat. But of course, negative hp don't exist anymore so I wonder what he's doing...

 

[Malmuria]

…because system doesn’t ma….

summoning spell interrupted!