Paul Farquhar
Legend
You already can't cast spells whilst raging. The could just extend that to "can't cast spells or use special class abilities like sneak attack". Problem solved.
Mike Mearls' Happy Fun Hour: Barbarian Marauder
You already can't cast spells whilst raging. The could just extend that to "can't cast spells or use special class abilities like sneak attack". Problem solved.
Kinematics
Hero
Eh, not really. It's too vague, and you start having to enumerate stuff. Does it not work with Extra Attack (eg: Fighter 5/Barbarian 1)? Action Surge? Cunning Action?
If you just say, you can't add multiple damage bonuses to an attack (eg: Rage bonus, Sneak Attack bonus, etc), it works for Rage, but brings up the question of something like Sneak Attack + Hunter's Mark. Your rule starts having effects outside the specific class.
If you try to qualify it as only applying to "always on" abilities, does it apply to Rage? Because that's limited use.
If you specify exactly these two abilities (Rage and Sneak Attack), then do you have to worry about how that rule might interact with other classes and subclasses? The more specific the rule, the less desirable. More specific rules should only be used to open up specific exceptions, if the rules are well written. They shouldn't add extra restrictions.
Maybe it should be approached from the Sneak Attack side instead? Because Sneak Attack seems to be the ability that's really causing problems for lots of other areas, rather than Rage.
The more you try to pin down, the more troublesome it is as a rule. And that's not even get into related effects, such as Dex becoming a bit of a "god" stat, and wanting to try to push away from that.
I'm sure there's a better way to handle this, but it's not something that comes easily to mind.
MechaTarrasque
Hero
Rage attack as an action seems interesting, kind of reminds me of the 4e warden's "form of" attack...and sneak attack as an action--all this makes me think that, if there is a 6e (and Mike Mearls is still in charge), it will be different then what a lot of people are thinking of....
Tales and Chronicles
Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Maybe a good alternative would be, like we saw with the spore druid, to make an archetype that can expend Rage uses for a Dex-based buff that specifically block the use of sneak attacks. The problem is that Sneak Attack should have been A) A specific Action that let you make an attack with +xd6 damage, not a bonus on a hit or B) apply to a hit of an Attack Action, so other features giving alternate Action that deals damage that are not Attack Actions would not work with SA.
I think one way would be giving the dex-build build features that require a Saving Throw from the enemies to avoid the flurry of blades coming toward them instead of calling for an attack roll form the barb. Since SA requires a hit to apply, this would be mutually exclusive.
Ex: Avalanche of Blows: On your turn, you can expand a use of Rage as a bonus action to enter a dance-like battle stance for 1 minute. While in this stance, on your turn, your Speed increases by 10 an any enemy that comes in within 5' of you while moving must make a Dex save against 8+prof+Dex or take 1d8+Dex+Rage damage bonus. Each enemy can only be affected once per turn by this action. The damage increase by 1d8 at level X,Y,Z.
I think one way would be giving the dex-build build features that require a Saving Throw from the enemies to avoid the flurry of blades coming toward them instead of calling for an attack roll form the barb. Since SA requires a hit to apply, this would be mutually exclusive.
Ex: Avalanche of Blows: On your turn, you can expand a use of Rage as a bonus action to enter a dance-like battle stance for 1 minute. While in this stance, on your turn, your Speed increases by 10 an any enemy that comes in within 5' of you while moving must make a Dex save against 8+prof+Dex or take 1d8+Dex+Rage damage bonus. Each enemy can only be affected once per turn by this action. The damage increase by 1d8 at level X,Y,Z.
Last edited:
MechaTarrasque
Hero
I have a feeling this will end up like the spell-less ranger: Mike Mearls will play with this (and resolve to do things differently for barbarians and rogues in 6e) and in Drizzt's Directory of Dangerous Destinations, there will be the dervish rogue.
Yaarel
He Mage
It seems like it would be easier to fix two-weapon fighting, to make it without using a bonus action?
Tony Vargas
Legend
No chang'n the PH.
Yaarel
He Mage
Heh, I can see it now. New feature in future splatbook. ‘Fighting with Both Hands’. Doesnt use bonus point.
Kinematics
Hero
YouTube video for April 4 stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYUegY5MArs&t=4s
Today's twitch stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/248889565
So, today Mike made a bit of progress in expanding the Marauder idea. Talked about weapon choices, two weapon fighting, various balance issues such as the exhaustion on the Berserker (he wasn't sure it was actually a necessary restriction, but didn't get far into it), a little bit on the difference between choosing subclasses at 1st vs 3rd level, and then...
About 40 minutes into the video, a string of ideas came together that completely changed the entire concept — or rather, the premise behind the concept — and Marauder became the Volcano Barbarian.
There was a bit of a moment of asking, Is this a cool idea, or is this stupid? But both Mike and the stream were having a lot of fun with it, so it moved on from there. It actually didn't change much of the mechanics, from how it was being built as a "Marauder", but it built the idea of an environment that would help shape why these particular choices were being made.
Mechanics-wise, there wasn't a huge amount of change, just stuff getting revised and tweaked a bit. But it was fun seeing one of those moments where an idea just "clicked", and Mike just ran with it to see how it would play out.
There were lots of good points being made in the stream, but it's hard to transcribe, so I'm going to leave that aside from now.
Today's twitch stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/248889565
So, today Mike made a bit of progress in expanding the Marauder idea. Talked about weapon choices, two weapon fighting, various balance issues such as the exhaustion on the Berserker (he wasn't sure it was actually a necessary restriction, but didn't get far into it), a little bit on the difference between choosing subclasses at 1st vs 3rd level, and then...
About 40 minutes into the video, a string of ideas came together that completely changed the entire concept — or rather, the premise behind the concept — and Marauder became the Volcano Barbarian.
There was a bit of a moment of asking, Is this a cool idea, or is this stupid? But both Mike and the stream were having a lot of fun with it, so it moved on from there. It actually didn't change much of the mechanics, from how it was being built as a "Marauder", but it built the idea of an environment that would help shape why these particular choices were being made.
Mechanics-wise, there wasn't a huge amount of change, just stuff getting revised and tweaked a bit. But it was fun seeing one of those moments where an idea just "clicked", and Mike just ran with it to see how it would play out.
There were lots of good points being made in the stream, but it's hard to transcribe, so I'm going to leave that aside from now.
