Monk + Roge/Scout?|| FoB with Sneak Attack?

[vlysses]

Hi all, given you very helpful comments previously, I was wondering if anyone had any experience playing a Monk/Rogue of Monk/Scout combination (emphasis on unarmed strike and martial arts feats/skills such as flying kick and tripping).

Which one is more practical?

And very importantly, rules wise: is it possible to combine FoB with Sneak Attack? I'm thinking here to take just one level of Rogue, get the sneak attack ability, and then do 1D6 of extra damage at every successful FoB Sneak Attack... or is this against the spirit of the Sneak Attack, where you have to be precise, rather than just randomly hit as many foes as possible (which is a bit the spirit of FoB ;-)

Many thanks,V

 

[Nebten]

Oh yes you can unload a furry of blows with sneak attack as long as the pre-reqs for sneak attack are met. You typically are not able to do so with scout since you have to move and then attack to get the extra damage benifit and FoB is a full round action.

Just make sure you take your rogue level first and that he's lawful =v).

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's still possible to get FoB and skirmish, just more difficult. A bunch of items in the Magic Item Cmpendium will let you, a few times per day, accomplish this. Boots of Sidestepping: swift action 3/day, take an extra 5 ft step. So you can do a 10 ft step around the enemy and proceed to full attack. I think Skirmisher Boots also let you full attack skirmish, I forget exactly what they do, though.

The level 5 stance, Press the Advantage (White Raven discipline), from Tome of Battle basically lets you 10 ft step anytime you choose ot 5 ft step (or to 5 ft step in difficult terrain, where you normally can't). Without Warblade or Crusdaer multiclassing, though, you could not take that as a feat until level 18. It basically guarantees that if you start within 10 ft of the enemy you can always full attack, though.

If the DM considers being teleported to count for activating skirmish, that opens up new avenues as well.

There are also two ways to do unarmed strikes from range, which would mean you don't even need to be close to the enemy when you take whatever 10 ft step combo you end up with.
One is the Ring the Golden Bell feat, from dragon mag #319*. It can only be used 1 +wis mod times per day, has very short range, and is the weaker option, IMO.
*It can also be found on page 41, here: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf
The other option, if you have an allied spellcaster, is Blood Wind, a level 1 sorc/wiz/cleric (strangely not Druid) spell from Spel Compendium. Casting it is a swift action, and for 1 round, the target can make natural attacks at range, with a range increment of 20 ft. Cover can add to the AC of any who are attacked, as normal for a ranged attack. Recall, monk gets to count his unarmed strike as a natural weapon....

 

[Herzog]

you will be able to do SA damage with FoB when you are flanking or when the target is flat-footed.

However, when the target is flat-footed because you are hidden or invisible, only the first attack will do SA damage (because for all subsequent attacks you are no longer considered hidden)

If you want to combine rogue and monk, the Ascetic Rogue feat from Complete Adventurer allows you to freely switch between the two classes (normally not allowed for monk), increases the stunning blow DC when combining sneak attack with unarmed strike, and allows you to stack your rogue levels with your monk levels to determine unarmed strike damage.

Obviously, that last part is most beneficial when combining a few monk levels with a lot of rogue levels.

I think there is also a similar feat to benefit from the monk/scout combination, but I'm not sure where to find it. regardless, previous comments about the difficulty of combining 10' move with FoB stands.

The third option would be to combine Monk with Ninja. Especially with the Ascetic Stalker feat from Complete Scoundrel. However, the ninja's sudden strike ability does not work when simply flanking, so a lot of FoB sneak attack situations would be lost.

 

[vlysses]

Thanks guys, this is helpful... looks like the Rogue makes a whole lot more sense than the Scout... We have a quick barbarian in our group (who has Sping Attack), so I am hoping on his co-operation to achieve many many flanking opportunities... ;-)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Actually, the main point of Spring Attack is to get in and get out of melee, so the foe can never bring the pain of a full attack on you. So I doubt the barbarian will be terribly helpful for you. Summon Monster spells, or as my group calls them, summon flanking buddy, may be your best bet, if the party wizard or cleric is willing to cast it.

 

[vlysses]

StreamOfTheSky, yes you're right, SA is actually not so much the point here as the mobility on the battlefield generally, where we will be able to move around, avoiding AoOs (he with Mobiliy I with Tumble) and flanking opponents as often as poss...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Another option...

Check my sig for the Monk Database.

In there, you'll find:

1) The Ascetic Rogue feat's location

2) The Oriental Adventures Monk has no MC restrictions. Certain other setting-based base class variants have different MC restrictions from the PHB version.

3) The Shou Disciple PrCl (OA) has only 5 levels, and at the end of it, your PC can FoB with ANY weapon, can wear armor while doing so...and doesn't require Monk levels as a prereq- all you need is the right combo of Feats, skills, and BAB (or whatever).

For example, you could design this guy as a Ftr/Rogue, get the BAB & Feat boost, then cruise through the PrCl, FoBing & SAing with your 2Hd sword, Maul or Greatspear. Or you could be a BttlSorc/Rogue and augment your abilities with spells, Dimension Dooring behind your foes, then tearing them up. And so forth.

 

[Lazlo]

I made that exact Monk/Rogue combo for a Forgotten Realms 'Batman' character. He only took 1 lvl of Monk (when he was mourning his father's death) and Rogue the rest of the way with Ascetic Rogue. He can do massive amounts of unarmed damage especially when coming in from the shadows, and since I want him really in the spirit of Batman, uses non-lethal damage against enemies as often as he can.

 

[Darklone]

If you do the monky rogue stunt, don´t forget ability focus from the MM for optimised stunning fist DCs.