Ninja Class from Dragon #274

[Samothdm]

I posted something similar over at RPGnet when the boards were down, but wanted to ask here as well.

I have a player in a solo campaign who wants to use the Ninja class from Dragon #274. However, with the exception of the Ghost Step ability, he does not want to use any of the ki powers. We're thinking of replacing the ki powers with bonus martial arts feats similar to the list for the monk and Shaman classes (the revised OA Shaman from the same issue of Dragon).

Thoughts? He'll be going solo so I want to make sure that he can get by without being too powerful compared to the characters in my other group (who are playing in the same campaign world).

 

[Sorren]

He's going solo? Will he ever be playing that character in a group with other players? If not, who cares if it's balanced? Make him a gestalt character for all it matters.

Game balance exists to make sure one player doesn't get all the glory. If there is only on player, game balance isn't an issue.

 

[Samothdm]

He's going solo? Will he ever be playing that character in a group with other players? If not, who cares if it's balanced?

Yeah, he used to be in the "main" group, but life got in the way. He wants the solo campaign to keep him involved in the story line (we're going to play during lunch at work) but his intention is to eventually be able to rejoin the main group so I'd like his character to be somewhat balanced.

I'd rather use a more technically-balanced PC for him and then just adjust the encounters for him since he's solo, rather than going the other way and making him too powerful.

As it is now, I'm actually a little concerned that maybe taking out all the ki powers makes him too weak.

Anybody use the class before?

 

[LoneWolf23]

I don't really like Dragon's version of the Ninja. The way I see it, Ninjas are basically a combination Rogue/Monk or Ranger/Monk, perhaps with a few levels of Assassin as well. If I were to build a Ninja class, however, I'd use the Ranger as a foundation.

 

[Ashanderai]

Um... Didn't you already start a thread on this board here?

 

[Samothdm]

Um... Didn't you already start a thread on this board here?

Yeah, but that was more about advice on running a solo-player campaign since I've never done that before.

For this thread, I was specifically looking for advice on tweaking the mechanics of the class he wants.

I guess I could've put them in the same thread, but I thought I stood a better chance of getting a response by starting a new thread.

 

[Ashanderai]

Yeah, but that was more about advice on running a solo-player campaign since I've never done that before.

For this thread, I was specifically looking for advice on tweaking the mechanics of the class he wants.

I guess I could've put them in the same thread, but I thought I stood a better chance of getting a response by starting a new thread.

Ah. Okay, I don't know about fixing the ninja from dragon. Honestly, it strikes me as more of a ghost fighter than a ninja (Many of its abilities don't make sense to me for a ninja). I would recommend my ninja (which is very customizable) rather than use that. There is also a very good and well researched one to be found on the oriental adventures section of the WotC message boards. (Sorry, I don't have a link ready for that at the moment) I believe that one is called Shinobi no Bushi.

 

[jesseghfan]

I think AEG (the Legend of the Five Rings people) did a rather good ninja.

It can be found here:
AEG Ninja

The saves have been errata-ed for a strong reflex and weak will.

I think (esp. now in 3.5) it needs evasion added, plus I add an exotic weapon pro. or two.

Best of luck.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Ah. Okay, I don't know about fixing the ninja from dragon. Honestly, it strikes me as more of a ghost fighter than a ninja (Many of its abilities don't make sense to me for a ninja). I would recommend my ninja (which is very customizable) rather than use that. There is also a very good and well researched one to be found on the oriental adventures section of the WotC message boards. (Sorry, I don't have a link ready for that at the moment) I believe that one is called Shinobi no Bushi.

No offense, Ashanderai, but your Ninja looks hella-overpowered... An interesting class, no doubt, but much more powerful than the regular classes or the 2 other ninja versions (Dragon mag and Rogukan) posted here...

AR

 

[Ashanderai]

No offense taken; however, I do disagree with you. This issue has already been discussed and addressed here.

This is what is said for anyone who might not be able to follow the link:

I don't think it is any more powerful than any other AU class, though it might have a bit too much flexibility (which is in itself a kind of power), which might get trimmed in playtesting. If you want to use it, but are concerned about that aspect of it making it more powerful then trim it down some in regards to the abilities you are allowed to choose from, though I wouldn't take away too much. You should probably take no more than 5 of the minor abilities away and since Fast Movement is already on the minor list I would remove it from the lesser and greater lists as it is redundant for it to be on those lists and then add a note in the Fast Move description that it can be selected once every 5 levels. Since Slippery Mind (Ceremonial feat choice) and Still Mind have somewhat similar applications you might want to remove Still Mind.

An alternate method would be to roll the ceremonial feat selection ability and the Night Owl Talent ability into the bonus feat selection; it doesn't lessen the power of it, but it lessens the perception that the class has too many choices available. If you look at the akashic class's bonus feat ability you see that it can select any general (same as the ninja), any ceremonial (the ninja can only choose from 6), and any item creation feats (the ninja can't get these); yet this is one minor ability choice for the akashic and the ninja has it broken down into three.

Swapping the 3rd and 4th level abilities around and then the 9th and 10th level abilities around might help to tone it down some also. Swapping those abilities around was something I wanted to do before it went to press, but forgot when I sent it in. This change will probably be in the final version that gets printed in the book, in addition to a couple of the above recommendations (if they survive playtesting).

To which another poster states:

Flexibility is a good thing, but don't confuse it with power. Frank's ninja class is powerful and versatile, but that ninja right there can do x, y, and z; and not a, b, or c. To put it another way, the ability to walk on water doesn't help unless you select it as a class ability.

Misha

I finish with:

True. Choice and circumstances dictate the power of a ninja; just as it does with some of the other classes, like the akashic.

If your DMs game doesn't have any intrigue, knowledge acquisition scenarios, or otherwise lessens emphasis on skills your akashic won't feel as powerful as other party members. The same is true of the ninja to a degree. If your campaign has less emphasis on intrigue, scouting, and infiltration or other cloak and dagger stuff your ninja won't be as useful as other members of the party. Sure, he'll hold his own, but his niche in the party is being ignored and that is never fun (IMHO); all characters should have a turn at using their class abilities. Because of the nature of many games, not all characters can.