D&D 5E Ranking 1st level spells

[FrogReaver]

It does as much damage as Chromatic Orb but as a Reaction. That is very good. If Hellish Rebuke isn't S Tier then spells like Chromatic Orb can't be higher than C Tier. I think we're getting away from what average is at that point.

My thoughts:

1. Chromatic Orb bypasses resistances and can target vulnerabilities. Fire damage is most likely to be resisted.
2. Hellish rebuke requires you to be hit - something at low levels that you don't want to happen.

Don't get me wrong - in terms of DPR hellish rebuke is probably as good or better than hex at most tiers. It's just the issues of having to be hit, not being able to really direct the damage to the creature you want, being a highly resisted damage type, having little control over the timing of when the damage might trigger, being a warlock only spell (basically becomes obsolete at level 5 with 3rd level spells).

I'd rate it average. So B. I'd also rate chromatic Orb as average.

 

[FrogReaver]

Put this way, if a Martial Maneuver allowed you to expend a Superiority Die to give a Bane like (-1d4) Attack modifier against 3 opponents, do you think some Battlemaster players would take it ?

It's not an apples to apples comparison. The question there is a tradeoff of +1d8 damage and some small effect (and no competition for concentration) for -1d4 to 3 enemies on a resource they have a lot more of. For first level spells it's the difference between bless and bane or shield and bane etc.

 

[Todd Roybark]

For first level spells it's the difference between bless and bane or shield and bane etc.

Which brings up the point, that a single adventurer out in the wild is not going to have all of the above spells on a Single Spell List.

A Divine Soul Sorcerer might. A Divine Sorcerer also has subclass abilities that can be used to duplicate some aspects of the Bless spell. I could easily see a Divine Sorcerer retraining or not taking the Bless spell due to this.

Comprehend Languages and Alarm are “S” tier level spells for Wizards, in my opinion, for example.

Being able to read that sign in a forgotten ancient language that says “Chernobyl Reactor Containment”, could be the best cast of the day, period. Comp Lang, is just useful, like a Swiss Army knife.

 

[FrogReaver]

Which brings up the point, that a single adventurer out in the wild is not going to have all of the above spells on a Single Spell List.

A Divine Soul Sorcerer might. A Divine Sorcerer also has subclass abilities that can be used to duplicate some aspects of the Bless spell. I could easily see a Divine Sorcerer retraining or not taking the Bless spell due to this.

Comprehend Languages and Alarm are “S” tier level spells for Wizards, in my opinion, for example.

Being able to read that sign in a forgotten ancient language that says “Chernobyl Reactor Containment”, could be the best cast of the day, period. Comp Lang, is just useful, like a Swiss Army knife.

Very situationally strong spells don't belong in S tier. B at best IMO.

 

[FrogReaver]

The Bane + Hypnotic Pattern combo was just used two sessions ago, in a crazy fight the players picked.

It knocked a flying Black Dragon out of sky! Which looked cool, but the impact on the ground negated the Hypnotic Pattern. Since the Dragon was not the Dangerous Thing(TM),they picked a fight with, Bane + Hypnotic Pattern+ Cutting Words ensured Hypnotic Pattern took hold on the thing worse then the dragon. This was so they could use Teleport to make a tactical retreat.

Cutting words doesn't help/hurt saves.

A Bane + Levitate combo, absolutely, saved the party from a TPK against a Oversized Two Headed Hell Hound at 4th level.

Levitate could have done that on it's own.
Hypnotic pattern could have had that same effect on it's own.

Seems like you just getting lucky with the -1d4 making a difference.

 

[Stoutstien]

I think I have made it abundantly clear, that the real value in Bane is the above.

That said, a minus to Attack roles of an enemy, is always useful, and a nice ribbon to have.
+5 to AC from a Shield spell is made better with the addition of a -1d4 to the enemies attack roll.

Put this way, if a Martial Maneuver allowed you to expend a Superiority Die to give a Bane like (-1d4) Attack modifier against 3 opponents, do you think some Battlemaster players would take it ?

maneuvers supplement attacks so generally any effect they have are going to be better than the same effect costing an action.

debuffing is rough in 5e. its hard to justify them most of the time seeing how short combat lasts so unless its a big effect like hold person or has a low cost they are rarely worth the action.

 

[Shiroiken]

I did talk about them at the beginning and they are italicized because of that.

While they are italicized, I think you might have edited out the part about rituals. The only possible thing I could think of is where you mention in D tier not having spend much on them. If that's what you meant, it's a little vague, because non-wizards have to have them prepared or have a similar feature to the wizard's spellbook, which is a cost.

 

[Krachek]

Compare to martial damage, all single target damage spell should be rate D.

 

[Dausuul]

Why can't they afford healing potions at 9th level?

They can afford healing potions, but their supply is not unlimited, particularly on long wilderness adventures when they can't just pop back to town every night. In combat at higher levels, there is not much difference between being at 1 hit point and being at ~7 hit points; but there is a world of difference between being at 1 hit point and being at 0. Why waste your supply of healing potions when you can spend one-tenth of a 1st-level spell slot instead? Better to keep the potions to supplement the party's out-of-combat healing, when those extra ~6 hit points won't just be wiped away by a stray attack.

On top of that, it also means the party does not have to forage or carry food on those long wilderness adventures. Traveling through a desert? A magic-blasted wasteland? The Abyss? Doesn't matter, your food supply is covered.

It does as much damage as Chromatic Orb but as a Reaction. That is very good. If Hellish Rebuke isn't S Tier then spells like Chromatic Orb can't be higher than C Tier. I think we're getting away from what average is at that point.

Sometimes Shield won't be enough to protect you. As far as what is on your list it's a Warlock spell so it is a bit moot. It is still quite good for a Warlock before 5th level.

I think comparing it to Shield is a mistake. I think it needs to be compared to other damage spells instead.

I completely disagree. The resource being expended is the same: One 1st-level spell slot. All 1st-level spells must compete for that same resource and therefore they must be compared to all other 1st-level spells.

There is no guarantee that any 1st-level damage spells are top-tier, and with the possible exception of burning hands and thunderwave, I don't think any of them are. The damage spells are in competition, not just with other 1st-level spells, but with cantrips. Once the party reaches 5th level, I find it is rarely worth the small boost in damage to expend a limited resource when you can toss fire bolt or toll the dead all day long. Chromatic orb has very little advantage over those spells, which makes it solidly C-tier in my book.

As for hellish rebuke, I hadn't even thought about it being a specifically warlock spell, but that just makes it even worse, because of the way warlock spell slots scale. Once you hit 5th level, it is directly competing with hypnotic pattern, fear, counterspell, and (for fiendlocks) fireball! Even allowing for the increase in damage from upcasting, it is mediocre to bad at that point. Very few 1st-level spells are any good for warlocks past 4th level. The ones that are useful either have noncombat utility, or can be sustained through a short rest (e.g., hex) so you can start a boss fight with them active and still get your full allotment of spell slots.

 

[Flamestrike]

Sleep is D tier?

Wut?