Reducing spell resistance

[Al'Kelhar]

Is there some way that a character can reduce an opponent's spell resistance?

Rant
It seems to me that spell resistance, at the higher numbers, is just a way of saying "spellcasters cannot affect this monster". Damage reduction always has a fairly simple method to overcome it - get the right weapon. At character levels where monsters with DR become commonplace, many of the characters will have access to weapons which overcome the DR. Alternatively, there's always a spellcaster with a Greater Magic Weapon handy. Spell resistance cannot be overcome by powerful spells, only powerful spellcasters. And get to a certain point, above SR 25, and you start needing ridiculously powerful spellcasters to affect these monsters (you can see I've never played a character above 9th level).

While I have no problem with SR as a concept, I do have a serious problem with "there is nothing you can do to affect this monster with spells". Ok, you know you're going to fight the Iron Golem of Death, so you prepare a few GMWs. But, your 9th level wizard is essentially useless against the roper (SR 28) which guards the first gate. (NB not real gaming experience, but hypothetical - I'm usually the DM).

So, is there any method of reducing/dispelling/negating the effect of SR? IMHO Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration are underpowered for feats because of their limited use and the bonus they provide is usually not sufficient to meaningfully counter high SRs. (Besides, there's a zillion ways to improve the DCs of your spells, but only two crappy feats which have an effect of a spellcaster's ability to affect spell resistant monsters).

Lateral thought
Have people tinkered with a DR-like SR system, e.g. "SR 25/3", which would mean "SR 25 against 1st through 3rd level spells"? If so, has it worked?

Cheers, Al'Kerlhar

 

[Hypersmurf]

Easy. Most SR is Spell-like, so it goes away in an Antimagic Field...

[dusts off hands] Well, my job here is done

-Hyp.

 

[the Jester]

In the 2e Tome of Magic there was a spell called Lower Resistance; I've converted it thus:

LOWER RESISTANCE
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Clr 5, Drd 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25’+5’/2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 2 rounds/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes (see text)

This spell causes the target to lose some degree of spell resistance for a time. Though it is not allowed a saving throw the target’s SR applies, but your spell penetration roll receives a +6 competence bonus. If you succeed the target’s SR drops by half your level.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Easy. Most SR is Spell-like, so it goes away in an Antimagic Field...

[dusts off hands] Well, my job here is done

-Hyp.

Hmm, if I didn't know better, I'd think you were being ironic.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Crothian]

There are feats that help get through SR, but more importantly any Wizard worth his robes will have spells that helpout the group and not be dependant on being able to effect the creature they are fighting. Plus there area few select spoells that ignore SR.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you succeed the target’s SR drops by half your level.

Stackable?

-Hyp.

 

[the Jester]

!

Stackable?

-Hyp.

Ooooh.... that's a very good question that I'd never even considered before!

I'd say probably not, because it's the same type of penalty, except it doesn't inflict a penalty, it reduces a score (kind of like ability damage).

Hmm... I'll think that over, wow- I'm glad you pointed that out to me! Several of the pcs in the campaign I run throw that spell around like candy when they expect to need it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: !

I'd say probably not, because it's the same type of penalty, except it doesn't inflict a penalty, it reduces a score (kind of like ability damage).

If it's non-stackable, I'd prefer to see something like "reduces SR by 1d6 points, + 1 point per 4 caster levels", or something similar, so that it's Empowerable.

If it's stackable, it's probably fine as is.

-Hyp.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

There are feats that help get through SR, but more importantly any Wizard worth his robes will have spells that helpout the group and not be dependant on being able to effect the creature they are fighting. Plus there area few select spoells that ignore SR.

Thanks Crothian. I guess my point - which is made in another, unrelated thread, sorry - is that it's not much fun being the party support, which is what high level spellcasters seemed destined for. You want to be there, in the thick of the action, zapping the BBEG, not yelling "go Grug, show him where he can stick that greatsword" from the sidelines.

Thanks to Jester for the spell lower resistance. I was vaguely aware of the original 2E version, having read it some years ago, and it was exactly the sort of thing I was looking for in 3E. My gut reaction is to make the bonus against spell resistance more than +6, or, because the very point of the spell is to lower spell resistance, to make it not subject to spell resistance, but to give a saving throw (as noted in my original post, it's relatively easy for a spellcaster to increase the DCs of his spells). The 2 rounds/level duration is atypical of 3E spells, and the reduction of SR by "half your level" also seems a little underpowered for a 5th level spell. Again, only a gut reaction, but I'd think a duration of 1 round/level, reduction of SR by spellcaster level, maxing out at -10 (leaving the option open for a greater lower resistance perhaps?) How do you find your version works in practice?

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Hypersmurf]

Again, only a gut reaction, but I'd think a duration of 1 round/level, reduction of SR by spellcaster level, maxing out at -10 (leaving the option open for a greater lower resistance perhaps?)

Given that a 5th level spell is a minimum of a 9th level caster, you may as well call it -10 and be done with it. There's not much point in saying "The spell reduces SR by 9 points if you're a 9th level caster, or 10 points for everyone else".

As for a Greater version, that's why I suggested adding a die roll to the result so it can be Empowered. As a 9th level spell, you're reducing SR by double the 5th level version...

-Hyp.