D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[Tales and Chronicles]

Question:

Does the spell-tree of: Inflict Wound -> Blight -> Contagion -> Harm feels more druidic or cleric-y to you?

The whole destroy life/cycle of life thing speaks Primal to me, but the reverse-Jesus thing also says ''dark cleric'' to me. Conundrum.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Question:

Does the spell-tree of: Inflict Wound -> Blight -> Contagion -> Harm feels more druidic or cleric-y to you?

The whole destroy life/cycle of life thing speaks Primal to me, but the reverse-Jesus thing also says ''dark cleric'' to me. Conundrum.

Yep. Again: difficult choices. Harm is a legacy Cleric spell IMO (akin to Heal). Keeping some of those spells in Cleric enforces the dark cleric, as you say, while Druid has plenty of dark/destructive spells to make them thoroughly "bad" for the player who wants them.

 

[TwoSix]

Oh man, 6th is tough.

Chain Lightning - Blasting AoE - Arcane
Circle of Death - Thematic question. The Primal - Feywild connection makes sense and seems popular, but what about a Primal - Shadowfell connection? Lean Primal, but if people don't think that linkage makes sense, Divine.
Create Homunculus - Arcane.
Create Undead - Divine.
Eyebite - Arcane.
Guards and Wards - Arcane.
Harm - Ugh. relates to my CoD question above. I think I'd still favor Divine, as this is a classic reversible spell.
Magic Jar - This spell is about souls, so Divine.
Mental Prison - Arcane.
Move Earth - Geomancy is Primal.
Otto's Irresistible Dance - Named spell, so I lean Arcane.
Scatter - Teleporting is Arcane for me. If we agree teleporting is fey in nature and should be Primal, that's OK too.
True Seeing - Revealing things as they truly are is Divine. Arcane and Primal do tricks, Divine sees through the trickery.
Word of Recall - Word magic always reads as Arcane to me.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Oh man, 6th is tough.

Chain Lightning - Blasting AoE - Arcane
Circle of Death - Thematic question. The Primal - Feywild connection makes sense and seems popular, but what about a Primal - Shadowfell connection? Lean Primal, but if people don't think that linkage makes sense, Divine.
Create Homunculus - Arcane.
Create Undead - Divine.
Eyebite - Arcane.
Guards and Wards - Arcane.
Harm - Ugh. relates to my CoD question above. I think I'd still favor Divine, as this is a classic reversible spell.
Magic Jar - This spell is about souls, so Divine.
Mental Prison - Arcane.
Move Earth - Geomancy is Primal.
Otto's Irresistible Dance - Named spell, so I lean Arcane.
Scatter - Teleporting is Arcane for me. If we agree teleporting is fey in nature and should be Primal, that's OK too.
True Seeing - Revealing things as they truly are is Divine. Arcane and Primal do tricks, Divine sees through the trickery.
Word of Recall - Word magic always reads as Arcane to me.

Yep, I think its a good way of seing it.

I actually like the Primal = Shadowfell-Prime-Fey-Elemental Chaos being Primal, while the Planes at large being Arcane and the Astral Dominions being Divine.

 

[Minigiant]

I get your point. Unfortunately, we are working with the current 5E spell lists and the goal was to make certain Rangers and Paladins (and whatever half-caster Arcane we decide--I favor Warlock) has access to as many of their current spells as possible. What else they should have is IMO preference.

Oh I get that.

I am more saying that spells involving arrows don't find my image of a d&d cleric, druid, nor wizard. None of them are now users outside of elven ones.

The same going for alloy metals and druids.

So having these on the list just for categorization is just inflating list with spells that will just need to be removed. And they will have to be tagged for further discussion.

 

[TwoSix]

Question:

Does the spell-tree of: Inflict Wound -> Blight -> Contagion -> Harm feels more druidic or cleric-y to you?

The whole destroy life/cycle of life thing speaks Primal to me, but the reverse-Jesus thing also says ''dark cleric'' to me. Conundrum.

I think I'd associate Primal with the idea of death as a natural process. It recycles, rots, and breaks down. That's why reincarnate is a Primal spell. Dark Primal energy is also associated with infection; a curse is like a parasitic magical organism that feeds off its host. So Blight and Contagion are Primal in feel.

Harm, though, is a spell of annihilation, it's a smiting through the raw power of Death itself. So for that, I'd lean Divine.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Oh I get that.

I am more saying that spells involving arrows don't find my image of a d&d cleric, druid, nor wizard. None of them are now users outside of elven ones.

The same going for alloy metals and druids.

So having these on the list just for categorization is just inflating list with spells that will just need to be removed. And they will have to be tagged for further discussion.

I imagine some spells might become spell-like features for the half-casters. Some points have already made about spells such as Eldritch Blast, Hex, etc. for Warlocks.

 

[TwoSix]

Oh I get that.

I am more saying that spells involving arrows don't find my image of a d&d cleric, druid, nor wizard. None of them are now users outside of elven ones.

The same going for alloy metals and druids.

So having these on the list just for categorization is just inflating list with spells that will just need to be removed. And they will have to be tagged for further discussion.

I think the idea we're trying to build and flesh out here (at least, for me) is that the spell lists represent cosmological principles and magical techniques that supersede any one class. The Primal spells are about "Nature" as a whole, the connections between the Material Realm, the Fey Realm and its denizens, the Shadow Realm and the spirits that haunt it, and the raw power of the Elemental Realms that underlie the three worlds.

A druid is just a particular type of caster who masters these energies. A ranger knows how to use the techniques of the druid, just not with the depth of the connection a druid has. So there are certain techniques of using Primal magic that are most often used by rangers, but there's nothing stopping a druid from using that technique if they want, they just usually won't synergize with the abilities druids possess.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I think the idea we're trying to build and flesh out here (at least, for me) is that the spell lists represent cosmological principles and magical techniques that supersede any one class. The Primal spells are about "Nature" as a whole, the connections between the Material Realm, the Fey Realm and its denizens, the Shadow Realm and the spirits that haunt it, and the raw power of the Elemental Realms that underlie the three worlds.

A druid is just a particular type of caster who masters these energies. A ranger knows how to use the techniques of the druid, just not with the depth of the connection a druid has. So there are certain techniques of using Primal magic that are most often used by rangers, but there's nothing stopping a druid from using that technique if they want, they just usually won't synergize with the abilities druids possess.

Nailed it.

 

[TwoSix]

I imagine some spells might become spell-like features for the half-casters. Some points have already made about spells such as Eldritch Blast, Hex, etc. for Warlocks.

This too. Hunter's Mark and Swift Quiver, for example, make sense as ranger techniques that are acquired by class features, not spellcasting. I'd say options like Lightning Arrow, Entangling Strike, and Conjure Barrage (literally, "Conjure" Barrage!) should stay as spells.

I could see an argument for Conjure Barrage being an arcane spell that Rangers gain via class feature, though.