D&D 5E (2024) Rogue's Been in an Awkward Place, And This Survey Might Be Our Last Chance to Let WotC Know.

[CapnZapp]

how much of a damage boost for them would it be if a subclass increased the rogue's sneak attack die from a d6 to d8?

It would mean +1 per sneak die, so +10 if we compare 10d6 to 10d8.

Of course many gamers have a bucketload of six-sided dice but not eight-sided dice, so this is not totally problemfree.

 

[CapnZapp]

A simple way to add DPR to the rogue class would be to give them Extra Attack at level 5.

But this completely removes their unique identity, mechanicswise.

 

[James Gasik]

But this completely removes their unique identity, mechanicswise.

Maybe. But in a world where full arcane casters can get Extra Attack, it seems odd that the Rogue can't have it, at least on a subclass level.

 

[Pauln6]

But this completely removes their unique identity, mechanicswise.

I agree. I feel that extra attack is for fighter/thief builds.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Of course you can. Disengage as bonus, dash as action.

You know what I mean lol, but you are technically correct, the best kind of correct, so te absolvo <3.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I agree. I feel that extra attack is for fighter/thief builds.

I also agree. I feel like the big thing with Rogues is single big hits. You can also afford to make them hit harder than other classes because they are limited to one target, and because they often do more "overdamage" (i.e. past what was needed to down a target) than other classes. Unfortunately 5E (including 2024) has chosen to balance them so they don't really do more damage than other classes, particularly when synergy with other classes/cooperation, magic items, and Feats is taken into consideration.

 

[Horwath]

It would mean +1 per sneak die, so +10 if we compare 10d6 to 10d8.

Of course many gamers have a bucketload of six-sided dice but not eight-sided dice, so this is not totally problemfree.

only if they make that crit doubles ALL damage, not just dice.

 

[Horwath]

A simple way to add DPR to the rogue class would be to give them Extra Attack at level 5. Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Paladins, and Rangers (ya know, the other martial classes) all get it, so why not Rogues? The actual damage from the attack won’t add a ton of damage, but having a second chance to do Sneak Attack (in case you miss on your first attack) should up the DPR a bit.

sounds like a good 6th level ability for a subclass, oh, wait, they removed that, so we now have to wait for potential new subclass with extra attack till 9th level.

Brute subclass:
3rd level: proficiency with all weapons and armor,
no stealth penalty with armor,
sneak attack works with all weapons(this should be default, but hey)

9th(6th) level: extra attack.
You can sneak attack twice per turn, but not on a same target.

13th(10th) level: proficiency in Con and Str saves

17th(14th) level: quick strike, make one weapon attack as a Bonus action.
you can sneak attack 3 times per round.
you can sneak attack same target twice per round.

 

[CapnZapp]

Maybe. But in a world where full arcane casters can get Extra Attack, it seems odd that the Rogue can't have it, at least on a subclass level.

It doesn't seem odd at all. If Rogues got Extra Attack, that would likely mean they could not also get much sneak attack damage if any at all.

Of course you could say Rogues aren't proficient with anything else than daggers except when they do a sneak attack. Then we can allow the rogue to technically do two and then three attacks with Extra Attack for 1d4 dmg each, with no sneak damage.

But doing that only to answer the question "but why can one grown man attack twice while another can't" just isn't worth it. D&D is already chock full of things that only exist because of game balance; just chalk this one too up to that.

 

[CapnZapp]

I also agree. I feel like the big thing with Rogues is single big hits. You can also afford to make them hit harder than other classes because they are limited to one target, and because they often do more "overdamage" (i.e. past what was needed to down a target) than other classes. Unfortunately 5E (including 2024) has chosen to balance them so they don't really do more damage than other classes, particularly when synergy with other classes/cooperation, magic items, and Feats is taken into consideration.

Yes. Perhaps from the vantage point of a vanilla PHB rogue you did more damage than a vanilla fighter, but you certainly aren't doing more damage than a martial character that adds some oomph through items, magic abilities and/or or items, especially when you factor in Extra Attack.

Partially because WotC completely forgot to give the Rogue similar freebies to play with. If there existed Rogue subclasses that offered build choices to increase Sneak damage (at the expense of other fun Rogue things) we wouldn't be having this discussion.