Sneak Attacks on Rays

[Mr.Binx]

How about the rest of the quote?

Since your action is "immediately ahead of the combatant whose action triggered the readied action," the implication is that the "conditions" that were met relied upon a combatant's actions.

So in that stated case the condition was an action. This does not mean that all conditions must be actions. i.e. "I will dance a jig when 6 seconds pass." You can imply stuff all you want. Really guys, stop arguing about semantics and argue about something worthwhile, difficult to understand, or at the very least fun and entertaining. I just can't stop reading this thread for some horrible reason. It's actually exceeeded the 'Intensify Spell is an Epic WASTE!!!!' thread! The horror...

 

[Artoomis]

Do you really mean that I could say, "I ready an action to attack Bob as soon as he takes any action, even no action," but I couldn't say, "I ready an action to attack Bob as soon as he appears"?

And do you mean to tell me that if Bob's spell expires on Liza the Mage's initiative, BOb would be taking "any action, even no action" on Liza's initiative?

That seems much less in keeping with the ready rules than does my suggestion.

Daniel

I think I just answered this one., but just in case I did not.

The ready action require a "condition" that must be met, but it also requires that the condition be base on someone's acions, for your intiative changes to just before the "trigger person's" intiative.

in this case, I agree that it is pretty reasoinable that you should be able to act when the Rogue appears. To do this, though, you must have something to act before, since that's the way Ready action works.

In this case, you don't really get to act AFTER the rogue appears, you act BEFORE the wizard (the rogue appears just before the wizard acts). It's a fine point, maybe, but you do need to have an intiative to use to set your new intiative against, and a READY action always has you act just before something, not after something.

 

[Artoomis]

So in that stated case the condition was an action. This does not mean that all conditions must be actions. i.e. "I will dance a jig when 6 seconds pass." You can imply stuff all you want. Really guys, stop arguing about semantics and argue about something worthwhile, difficult to understand, or at the very least fun and entertaining. I just can't stop reading this thread for some horrible reason. The horror...

No, the condition really does need to be based upon someone's actions, for that is how you get your new intiative count.

 

[Pielorinho]

Oh, I think I got you. Okay, perhpas I had the wrong trigger. You'd have to know to attack teh rogure if teh wizard cast a spell on him.

Actually, in this case Id allow a fairly vague "if the rogue appears I want to attack hm before anything else happens."

The trigger here is really the "anything else happens," which is rather broad, but the intent is clear enough so I'd allow it - it just seesm like something you certianly should be able to do.

Again, I don't think this works -- or if it does, it renders the word "before" meaningless. If your trigger is ever "after X happens and before anything else happens," then the "before anything else happens" in no way narrows the circumstances in which your trigger goes off. It is meaningless as part of the conditions that should be satisfied, and your trigger is absolutely equal to "after X happens."

In any case, this doesn't answer my question. If you can ready an action for when the rogue appears, then your trigger is something other than a combatant's action. Which is what I'm saying should be allowed, and what I thought you were saying shouldn't be allowed.

Daniel

 

[Mr.Binx]

No, the condition really does need to be based upon someone's actions, for that is how you get your new intiative count.

That sounds rather rickety. What happens if your readying an action to jump on the next log that reels in front of you in a white-water river? What if you wanted to grab onto the hand of a giant clock at it's lowest point when it goes through a full rotation every six seconds but starts at it's apex every round? etc. etc. It really all comes down to the timekeeping style of the DM I guess.

 

[Artoomis]

That sounds rather rickety. What happens if your readying an action to jump on the next log that reels in front of you in a white-water river? What if you wanted to grab onto the hand of a giant clock at it's lowest point went it goes through a full rotation every six seconds but starts at it's apex every round? etc. etc.

Those other things aren't happening on some intiative count, and so I wouldn't handle them as readied actions - they are simply actions you take tha have a timing aspect to them - the application of some appropriate skill, most likely.

 

[doktorstick]

I think the spirit of the readied action is work to the readied character's advantage. If it is to stop an enemy spellcaster, the condition triggers during the casting, not before it completes. If it is to cast a spell on someone after their first swing in a full-attack action, then so be it. You are a) giving up your initiative to possibly a much lower count; b) not getting you regular round; and c) you may waste your round if the action does not fire.

Interrupting someone's action, while in progress, is supported by the PHB under the section "How Readying Works".

The DMG goes on to say that the span between too general and too specific is an adjudication decision. The reason being that combat is fast and a character may not realize all of the specifics. Two examples from the DMG follow:

A good (not overly) specific example: "I shoot the first enemy that comes through the door." (NOTE: Another example of interrupting an action to take a readied action. The enemy's move is not necessarily complete, yet the readied action is set.)

A potentially overly specific example: "I cover the door with my crossbow so that I shoot the first unwounded ghoul that comes through."

/ds

 

[Mr.Binx]

Those other things aren't happening on some intiative count, and so I wouldn't handle them as readied actions - they are simply actions you take tha have a timing aspect to them - the application of some appropriate skill, most likely.

Ok, we'll go simple for ya' here. You ready an action to fire an arrow at the first leave that falls off of a tree during combat because you're bored or drunk while everyone else fights. What initiative does this occur on?

 

[doktorstick]

That sounds rather rickety. What happens if your readying an action to jump on the next log that reels in front of you in a white-water river? What if you wanted to grab onto the hand of a giant clock at it's lowest point when it goes through a full rotation every six seconds but starts at it's apex every round? etc. etc. It really all comes down to the timekeeping style of the DM I guess.

The DMG states that readied actions should not be used outside of combat.

 

[LokiDR]

Artoonis, I think I am with Pielorinho. Didn't you say that this is exactly what you couldn't do?

If I follow your reasoning, the oger can attack just after the rogue attacks, in that example some number of posts back.