Sneak Attacks on Rays

[Artoomis]

Err, that still seems a bit iffy, but more reasonable. How would you rule something like "I shoot the first enemy I see" when rogues are sneaking up?

Well, the lightning goes off, you see a Rogue moving (let's face it, when the lightning goes off it must be somebody's turn, right?)

If you see nothing (maybe they are really good), then you have nothing upon which to base your action (gee, no one is there).

You act. Your intiative is now just before the Rogues.

Simple, eh?

Ready an action is really intended to let you react to something that the bad guts are doing. You can react to something a good guy is doing, too, of course.

But if you use Ready for everything, when do you use Delay? Which, by the way, does not restriuct you to a Partial Action.

 

[LokiDR]

Well, the lightning goes off, you see a Rogue moving (let's face it, when the lightning goes off it must be somebody's turn, right?)

If you see nothing (maybe they are really good), then you have nothing upon which to base your action (gee, no one is there).

You act. Your intiative is now just before the Rogues.

Simple, eh?

Ready an action is really intended to let you react to something that the bad guts are doing. You can react to something a good guy is doing, too, of course.

But if you use Ready for everything, when do you use Delay? Which, by the way, does not restriuct you to a Partial Action.

I would still kind of wonder about reacting to things that are purely a function of the enviroment, but I can't think of any examples right now. Without examples, I can't counter your reasoning, so your reasoning must be good. Either that or I have fallen asleep typing again. That would be bad.

 

[Pielorinho]

I would still kind of wonder about reacting to things that are purely a function of the enviroment, but I can't think of any examples right now. Without examples, I can't counter your reasoning, so your reasoning must be good. Either that or I have fallen asleep typing again. That would be bad.

Artoomis, i recognize that the lightning example is a weird one,and honestly, I don't think the rules provide any clear way to deal with it. I think the easiest way to handle it would be to roll percentile dice each round. If the result is between 1 and 20, lightning strikes on that initiative count. People who ready their actions to go when lightning strikes would go on that initiative count.

Delaying doesn't quite work, because delayed actions go *after* something is finished. Readied actions don't quite work, because readied actions do need to have an initiative count to adjust to. But if you provide the lightning with an initiative count, then readied actions work perfectly.

At any rate, do you agree with my analysis above -- namely, that all the book's examples of readied actions involve their interrupting other actions?

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Oh, you asked when I used delay. Generally, I use it when the battlefield prevents me from doing anything particularly useful right now, but I expect that conditions will change.

For example: in one combat, my wizard had climbed a tree that was surrounded at the base by an obscuring mist. Zombies moaned and shuffled within that mist, so I climbed out of the mist and delayed.

Eventually, the evil cleric who accompanied the zombies came running out of the mist, followed closely by my companions. I stopped delaying and started firing my crossbow at the cleric.

Delay is good to use when you don't know an exact trigger that you want to prompt your action. It's good when you can't really predict what's gonna happen in a battle, and you don't want to lose a readied action. It's good if you're standing next to an enemy and you expect that a companion is about to come running up to flank the enemy.

It's not good if you want to act while something else is going on. That's when you want a readied action.

Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

Artoomis, i recognize that the lightning example is a weird one,and honestly, I don't think the rules provide any clear way to deal with it. I think the easiest way to handle it would be to roll percentile dice each round. If the result is between 1 and 20, lightning strikes on that initiative count. People who ready their actions to go when lightning strikes would go on that initiative count.

Delaying doesn't quite work, because delayed actions go *after* something is finished. Readied actions don't quite work, because readied actions do need to have an initiative count to adjust to. But if you provide the lightning with an initiative count, then readied actions work perfectly.

At any rate, do you agree with my analysis above -- namely, that all the book's examples of readied actions involve their interrupting other actions?

Daniel

I don't know about lightning either. I am actually leaning toward delay, because you are waiting for battlefield condition to change. That is when you said you use it.

 

[Pielorinho]

I don't know about lightning either. I am actually leaning toward delay, because you are waiting for battlefield condition to change. That is when you said you use it.

Well, you'd want to acting during the lightning flash, not after the flash. That's why I'd use a readied action: readied actions can interrupt other events and resolve before the other event is finished. Delayed actions resolve after the other event is finished, unless the other event lasts for six seconds (e.g., a one-round casting time for a spell).

Your average lightning flash doesn't last six seconds. If it were a six-second-long flash, I'd allow everyone to take an action with no concealment penalties for low-light.

But as I said, the rules don't really cover things like lightning flashes; however we handle it will be ad hoc. I just think the readied action solution, assigning an initiative count to the lightning, bends the rules the least and allows for the most "realistic" handling of a brief flash of light.

Daniel

 

[Artoomis]

Well, you'd want to acting during the lightning flash, not after the flash. That's why I'd use a readied action: readied actions can interrupt other events and resolve before the other event is finished. Delayed actions resolve after the other event is finished, unless the other event lasts for six seconds (e.g., a one-round casting time for a spell).

Your average lightning flash doesn't last six seconds. If it were a six-second-long flash, I'd allow everyone to take an action with no concealment penalties for low-light.

But as I said, the rules don't really cover things like lightning flashes; however we handle it will be ad hoc. I just think the readied action solution, assigning an initiative count to the lightning, bends the rules the least and allows for the most "realistic" handling of a brief flash of light.

Daniel

Of course, you can't really act DURING a lightning flash. That's impossible - it doesn't last long enough.

If, however, you wanted to act immediately AFTER the flash, while you still had an image of where everything is...

 

[LokiDR]

Well, you'd want to acting during the lightning flash, not after the flash. That's why I'd use a readied action: readied actions can interrupt other events and resolve before the other event is finished. Delayed actions resolve after the other event is finished, unless the other event lasts for six seconds (e.g., a one-round casting time for a spell).

Your average lightning flash doesn't last six seconds. If it were a six-second-long flash, I'd allow everyone to take an action with no concealment penalties for low-light.

But as I said, the rules don't really cover things like lightning flashes; however we handle it will be ad hoc. I just think the readied action solution, assigning an initiative count to the lightning, bends the rules the least and allows for the most "realistic" handling of a brief flash of light.

Daniel

In the case of lightning, as a DM I would rule it does not happen on any specific person's turn. You want to act when you know some one is there, but you don't act at the speed of light. Lighning flashes and then you shoot. Interupting lightning doesn't seem too plausible.

Ready or Delay to act with light from lightning? Ok, now I know we have gotten OT

 

[Pielorinho]

Ready or Delay to act with light from lightning? Ok, now I know we have gotten OT

I'll second that .

At any rate, I think you may be confusing the speed of light with the duration of lightning. From the thunderstorms I've been in, there's time to take a short action during the flash of the lightning. Some flashes go on and on, too -- the six-second flashes I talked about above.

Partly, I guess I'm imagining it as a scene in a movie. Pitch dark, rain everywhere, the sound of heavy breathing and of footsteps -- and then a flash of light, and the hero swings his sword wildly at the minotaur behind him -- and then it's dark again suddenly.

That's the scene that I'd use a readied action to describe. And I think as a DM, a readied action would allow me to inject more excitement and tension into the scene. There'd be a feeling of tension and paranoia building up, and then a sudden release of tension, and then the cycle repeats.

With a delayed action, you'd be acting in the darkness, and it wouldn't be nearly as exciting. Besides, the rules don't cover the amount of concealment you get for being in totally dark conditions but just a second ago it was really light.

Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

I'll second that .

At any rate, I think you may be confusing the speed of light with the duration of lightning. From the thunderstorms I've been in, there's time to take a short action during the flash of the lightning. Some flashes go on and on, too -- the six-second flashes I talked about above.

Partly, I guess I'm imagining it as a scene in a movie. Pitch dark, rain everywhere, the sound of heavy breathing and of footsteps -- and then a flash of light, and the hero swings his sword wildly at the minotaur behind him -- and then it's dark again suddenly.

That's the scene that I'd use a readied action to describe. And I think as a DM, a readied action would allow me to inject more excitement and tension into the scene. There'd be a feeling of tension and paranoia building up, and then a sudden release of tension, and then the cycle repeats.

With a delayed action, you'd be acting in the darkness, and it wouldn't be nearly as exciting. Besides, the rules don't cover the amount of concealment you get for being in totally dark conditions but just a second ago it was really light.

Daniel

I can see the point, and the drama does move better with a readied action. But you are not acting in the split second of light, you are acting on the image held by your eyes for about 3 seconds. Either way, it doesn't answer the question of what you initive is after the action. My opinion: only use the lighning in a "cinema" scene, so you don't have to bother