Sneak Attacks on Rays

[Pielorinho]

I agree with the line of reasoning in this response. During combat you're on your defensive and only one sucker punch is likely to get through before your guard goes up. This would follow the line of reasoning for impromptu sneak attack and similar special abilities that are used in conjunction with sneak attack.

What's "impromptu sneak attack"? I just wanna make sure that folks are not confusing issues here. There are definitely times when you get multiple sneak attacks without flanking -- for example, if you win initiative (and your opponent doesn't get a surprise round), then all your attacks in your first round can be sneak attacks. That's because your opponent is flatfooted until she acts in a combat.

The reasons that an opponent is denied his DEX bonus determine for how many attacks you can sneak attack. If the DEX bonus is denied, you're good to go, but this criteria must be met for each separate attack.

Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

What's "impromptu sneak attack"?

This an ability of the Arcane Trickster that allows a sneak attack on an oppent by distracting them with mage hand, so you can do it while standing, alone and fully visible, next to your oppent.

 

[Pielorinho]

This an ability of the Arcane Trickster that allows a sneak attack on an oppent by distracting them with mage hand, so you can do it while standing, alone and fully visible, next to your oppent.

Thanks, Loki!
Daniel

 

[Mr.Binx]

What's "impromptu sneak attack"?

Heh... sorry, I keep thinking everyone has access to all the same material. LokiDR is correct. Impromptu Sneak Attack allows an Arcane Trickster (T&B) to deny an opponent of your choice his dex mod for one single attack. There are many other abilities from other PrC's that provide similar benefits (the S&S Thief-Acrobat's Cartwheel Charge ability immediately springs to mind). In all instances that I have seen, these abilites have always allowed a single attack and not a full-round of attacks. It appears if you want a full round of sneak attacks then you're probably going to have to be in striking range of whatever it is you're about to piss off.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think the conclusion that has been reached is that the wording of ready is flawed. It currently reads:

"Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes before the action that triggers it. For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is the count on which the character took the readied action, and the character acts immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered the readied action."

In order for the actions which are presented as examples of readied actions to be possible, it SHOULD read:

"Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes during the condition that triggers it. It is resolved at a time which is most beneficial for the readying character. For instance if a character wishes to interrupt a spell, the action comes DURING the spellcasting, and BEFORE resolution of the spells effects. If a character wishes to shoot the first person to open a door, his partial action occurs DURING the MEA with which the door is opened, and AFTER the door is opened. If a character wishes to attack the first enemy who approaches within his 10 foot reach, his action is taken DURING the enemies movement and is resolved DURING the movement action (after the enemy enters the 10 foot reach, but before he moves any more). For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is assumed to be slightly before that of the triggering condition, and sharing the same initiative step."

I think that about covers it, don't you? Specifically the "most beneficial for the character" line means that in the question above, you may cast invisibility after the targets first attack, and the ogre may attack after the target becomes visible, but before he makes the attack.

 

[LokiDR]

In order for the actions which are presented as examples of readied actions to be possible, it SHOULD read:

"Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes during the condition that triggers it. It is resolved at a time which is most beneficial for the readying character. For instance if a character wishes to interrupt a spell, the action comes DURING the spellcasting, and BEFORE resolution of the spells effects. If a character wishes to shoot the first person to open a door, his partial action occurs DURING the MEA with which the door is opened, and AFTER the door is opened. If a character wishes to attack the first enemy who approaches within his 10 foot reach, his action is taken DURING the enemies movement and is resolved DURING the movement action (after the enemy enters the 10 foot reach, but before he moves any more). For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is assumed to be slightly before that of the triggering condition, and sharing the same initiative step."

I think that about covers it, don't you? Specifically the "most beneficial for the character" line means that in the question above, you may cast invisibility after the targets first attack, and the ogre may attack after the target becomes visible, but before he makes the attack.

I think your semantics, specifically "most beneficial for the character" could be bent by players, but the concept is right on. If I were to add anything, it would be that the condition must be specific.

 

[Artoomis]

Well, if I were to re-write it, it would be:

"Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. The conditions must be based upon another character's actions. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes during the condition that triggers it and is resolved at time that makes the most sense according to the orignal condition. For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is the count on which the character took the readied action, and the character acts immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered the readied action."

The following examples are presented to help adjucate how this works:

If a character wishes to interrupt a spell, the action comes DURING the spellcasting, and BEFORE resolution of the spells effects. If a character wishes to shoot the first person to open a door, his partial action occurs DURING the MEA with which the door is opened, and AFTER the door is opened. If a character wishes to attack the first enemy who approaches within his 10 foot reach, his action is taken DURING the enemies movement and is resolved DURING the movement action (after the enemy enters the 10 foot reach, but before he moves any more)."

The major changes I made were making the condition be based upon a character's action(s), changing the bit about timing and putting back the line about when yout new intiative is (that's important, yours left thing too open to confusion, I think).

I think that, with the examples provided, it works.

 

[LokiDR]

Well, if I were to re-write it, it would be:

"Specify the partial action a character will take and the conditions under which it will be taken. The conditions must be based upon another character's actions. When those conditions are met, the character may take the readied partial action. The partial action comes during the condition that triggers it and is resolved at time that makes the most sense according to the orignal condition. For the rest of the fight, the character's initiative result is the count on which the character took the readied action, and the character acts immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered the readied action."

The emphasized phrase seems to be too open, but I think the intent is clear.

I don't know about the "upon another character's action" though. This doesn't cover any case where the circumstances are changing rapidly, like the lightning or firing through a gap that only opens in the middle of a person's turn without them acting. I don't think the "not taking an action" is a good explanation.

 

[Artoomis]

The emphasized phrase seems to be too open, but I think the intent is clear.

I don't know about the "upon another character's action" though. This doesn't cover any case where the circumstances are changing rapidly, like the lightning or firing through a gap that only opens in the middle of a person's turn without them acting. I don't think the "not taking an action" is a good explanation.

Lightning, etc., should happen during your regular turn. You need to have an intitiative on which to act, that's why you need to base off someone else's actions.

Of course, you can go based on seeing someone else doing something in the lightning. That works, too.

 

[LokiDR]

Lightning, etc., should happen during your regular turn. You need to have an intitiative on which to act, that's why you need to base off someone else's actions.

Of course, you can go based on seeing someone else doing something in the lightning. That works, too.

Err, that still seems a bit iffy, but more reasonable. How would you rule something like "I shoot the first enemy I see" when rogues are sneaking up?