Star Wars what if. Qui Gon doesnt die.

[JacktheRabbit]

Ok, here is a little question for everyone.

What if Qui Gon Jinn did not die at the hands of Darth Maul. Assume instead that Obi Wan Kenobi dies in the duel and Qui Gon then killed Maul.

Do you think Anakin would have grown up into Darth Vader?

I think not. Qui Gon had a mentality that suggests he would have made a much better teacher for Anakin, much more of a father image that would have done Anakin much good.

Also Qui Gon is a more powerful Jedi than Obi Wan. I think there is a better chance Qui Gon would have noticed and/or halted the manipulation of Anakin by Palpatine.

 

[Dr Midnight]

disagree... Qui Gon wasn't nearly as strong in the force. He often mistook things. He was so certain that Anakin would bring balance to the force that he willfully defied the jedi council. Qui Gon was "higher level", but I think Obi-Wan's connection to the force is much greater, as is Anakin's over Obi-Wan's, etc...

I think if Qui Gon had gotten his hands on the boy, Palpatine might have been able to work control of BOTH of them over to him... especially since Darth Tyrannus trained Qui Gon (if I'm not mistaken).

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I disagree, Qui Gon was much more powerful in the force. Even Obi Wan said to him once that the only thing keeping him off the Council itself was his habit of opposing their wishes.

Also Qui Gon was a vastly better teacher than Obi Wan ever was. Remember when Yoda was talking about Luke? He called him headstrong, and several other things. Obi Wan admitted that he was no different than this. Yet under the tutilage of Qui Gon you saw none of that at all. Anakin though still possesses all of these traits while under Obi Wan.

Finally I would like to mention one other item that shows the strength of Qui Gon. In AOTC you actually hear the voice of Qui Gon. This is unheard of before then. Qui Gon was the first Jedi (according to the novelization of the movie) to ever speak through the force after his death.

 

[Klaus]

"It's all Obi-Wan's fault! He's always holding me BACK!"

Now imagine if Anakin was under the tutelage of the MUCH sterner Qui-Gon?

I think Anakin and Qui-Gon would eventually cross lightsabers, and Qui-Gon's death (as opposed to Shmi's) would herald his descent to the Dark Side.

Also, had Qui-Gon not died, he'd then have to kill Maul, and both he and Obi-Wan survive. With Obi-Wan's greater self-control, he'd rise fast in the ranks of the Jedi (specially without having to look after a padawan all the time). Could Obi-Wan's rise cause jealousy in either Qui-Gon or Anakin?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The only change I am making is Obi Wan's death instead of Qui Gon.

I saw nothing in ST 1 that suggested Qui Gon was sterner than Obi Wan. Quite the opposite, I saw Qui Gon much more as a father. Obi Wan took on Anakin out of an obligation to Qui Gon. He did not do it because he wanted to.

 

[Welverin]

While I think Qui-gon would made Anakin's change to the darkside less likely I think it would still have happened.

Since he wasn't raised by the jedi he seems unable to follow the jedi rule against forming attachments, which is what really causes his fall to the darkside.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

To a degree I agee with you.

The biggest problem was Jedi stupidity here. None of them were from the real world so they had no idea how to raise a real world child. None of them ever knew their parents so they could not understand what might happen if you rip a child away from his mother.

I think also though that there is a lot of manipulation of Anakin in the movie by Palpatine using the force. He caused the dreams and nightmares that plagued Anakin. I also think it was Palpatine that arranged for Anakin's mother to be tortured for so long. It was done to draw out Anakin back to Tatooine where the conveniently timed death of his mother could draw him into a rage.

While I think Qui-gon would made Anakin's change to the darkside less likely I think it would still have happened.

Since he wasn't raised by the jedi he seems unable to follow the jedi rule against forming attachments, which is what really causes his fall to the darkside.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I tend to agree with the Doc.

The Jedi had lost site of all the important values - they were all about duty and rules, except for Qui-gon. He did not listen to the rules, he listened to the force. To me Qui-gon was what the Jedi were meant to be.

Having said that, the order was rotten; it had to go. That was the will of the force. If not Anakin, then another would have stepped in to purge the order in fire so that it could be reborn.

Love caused the Jedi's downfall, faith in rules blinded them, fear of change shackled them to thier doom. Luke saved them because he loved his father, had faith that there yet remained goodness within him, and would not be shackled by Yodas fear of doing it the wrong way - or not being ready. The order was both destroyed and saved by those who listened to their hearts.

 

[jdavis]

I don't think that Qui Gon was more powerful than Obi Wan turned out when he got older, power in the force did not neccessarily translate into standing in the Jedi Order. Qui Gon had the knowledge and the experience to be on the council, not the raw brute strength with the force.

Qui Gon also had several blind spots that showed in the first movie, his idealism, while noble did cloud his vision, he failed to see the fear in Anakin's heart, which was the start of Anakin's problems. Him being a father figure instead of a teacher would of caused a whole different set of problems.

That being said, Obi Wan definatly wasn't that good of a teacher, but it wasn't all his fault. Jedi were supposed to start their training with Yoda at a young age, and were supposed to be well versed and grounded before they were sent to be Padawans. Anakin didn't have that background, he was too old when he started training to forget his life before being a Jedi. I don't think anybody could of suceeded with his training. Then you throw in Palpatines manipulations and it was a forgone conclusion how Anakin would turn out.

A interesting question would of been if Qui Gon would of been turned by Count Dooku, his former master, the speech Dooku gave Obi Wan sounded like it would of been awful tempting to the way that Qui Gon thought.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Qui Gon was more powerful though than Obi Wan is in either Ep 1 or 2 which are the crucial points I am talking about.

Also I don't see Dooku having any effect at all on Qui Gon. The two of them, are closer which is both good and bad. Good that Dooku knows the buttons to push but bad because Qui Gon will know Dooku so well that he will notice much easier the Dark side in Dooku and the general changes that would come over a person who is as different as Dooku was.

BTW, one can blame Obi Wan completely. It was his choice to raise Anakin completely on his own. He even says so himself on at least one ocassion.

In the end though I think one can blame the force itself the most. For whatever reason the force chose to favor the Dark Side. This is done to such a degree that two Sith have greater control over the force than thousands of Jedi. Only Yoda proves to be more powerful than Dooku in the end and this is only in a physical confrontation. I would imagine that in the area of farseeing he is quite inferior to both Sith. How else can you explain all the times the entire Jedi Council are in the same room as Palpatine and yet never once sense what he truly is.

I don't think that Qui Gon was more powerful than Obi Wan turned out when he got older, power in the force did not neccessarily translate into standing in the Jedi Order. Qui Gon had the knowledge and the experience to be on the council, not the raw brute strength with the force.

Qui Gon also had several blind spots that showed in the first movie, his idealism, while noble did cloud his vision, he failed to see the fear in Anakin's heart, which was the start of Anakin's problems. Him being a father figure instead of a teacher would of caused a whole different set of problems.

That being said, Obi Wan definatly wasn't that good of a teacher, but it wasn't all his fault. Jedi were supposed to start their training with Yoda at a young age, and were supposed to be well versed and grounded before they were sent to be Padawans. Anakin didn't have that background, he was too old when he started training to forget his life before being a Jedi. I don't think anybody could of suceeded with his training. Then you throw in Palpatines manipulations and it was a forgone conclusion how Anakin would turn out.

A interesting question would of been if Qui Gon would of been turned by Count Dooku, his former master, the speech Dooku gave Obi Wan sounded like it would of been awful tempting to the way that Qui Gon thought.