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lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
The Only Thing I Don't Like About 5e! (Hint- ASIs)
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lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
Swarmkeeper
Hero
Proficiency bonus going up after every four levels kinda sorta replaces the "getting better with level" mechanic of 1e. Don't get me wrong, I loved me some matrices back in the day, but the Prof bonus + Ability modifier tandem of 5e seems to simplify the process.
The Crimson Binome
Hero
They actually did solve that problem, which had been exacerbated in third edition, by capping everyone out at 20. A stat of 20 isn't like a demigod at all. A stat of 20 just means you're in the top half a percentile for your race.
If your half-orc has Strength 20, then he's 1-in-216 in terms of Strength. If you walk into a city that has 2160 half-orcs in it, then there are ten more just like you. You're not really anything special, just for being the very strongest you could possibly be, because you're really not all that strong relative to anyone else. (That's setting aside this issue of humans and halflings and whatnots that have improved their stats with level.)
Of course, being that strong is still absolutely necessary if you care about doing the things you want to do, because there are so few ways to get any meaningful bonus within the system. You're rolling a d20, and you only get between +2 and +6 from your level, so of course you need +5 from your stat if you want to do anything reliably at all.
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
I have an idea that might help. It wouldn't completely eliminate the connection between ability score and capacity, because I do think stronger people should be better at things requiring strength, ect. But cpuld be useful.
1) Half ability modifiers. A +2 becomes the highest modifier one could achieve through stats. Likewise, the worse a player can do is maybe -3 if they REALLY dump in the bed with rolled stats.
2) Change the proficiency bonus advancement from +2 - +6 to +2 - +9. If you want even more difficulty at lower levels, maybe even start proficiency bonus at +1 but allow for increased advancement. This would provide the feel of your power being more linked to your level, but also woulf be mathematically similar enough to current monster stat blocks as to not require much adjustment to enemy encounters of challenge DCs.
This also has the benefit of allowing players to take ASIs, but makes feats more appealing.
1) Half ability modifiers. A +2 becomes the highest modifier one could achieve through stats. Likewise, the worse a player can do is maybe -3 if they REALLY dump in the bed with rolled stats.
2) Change the proficiency bonus advancement from +2 - +6 to +2 - +9. If you want even more difficulty at lower levels, maybe even start proficiency bonus at +1 but allow for increased advancement. This would provide the feel of your power being more linked to your level, but also woulf be mathematically similar enough to current monster stat blocks as to not require much adjustment to enemy encounters of challenge DCs.
This also has the benefit of allowing players to take ASIs, but makes feats more appealing.
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lowkey13
Guest
*Deleted by user*
Sadras
Legend
So the solution would be quadratic classes which would disempower ability scores.
Additional you you would need to increase the proficiency bonus and limit ability bonuses to max +3
Abilities would require a slight make-over
Strength - affects weight allowance, weapon usage and damage (including ranged) and str-based skill checks
Dexterity - affects to hit, initiative, armour class and dex-based skill checks
Constitution - affects recovery time, system shock and exhaustion checks
Intelligence - affects Int spell level limit, additional proficiencies, languages and int-based skill checks
Wisdom - affects Wis spell level limit, wis-based skill checks, limits no of background flaws
Charisma - affects Cha spell level limit, attunement, cha-based skill checks
Casters characters - spell DCs affected by level, every 3 levels = +1DC, specialists gain +1DC on their chosen school
Martial characters - damage affected by level and proficiencies/expertise/specialisation
Hit Points based on Level + Size
Races would also require a retool.
EDIT: I'm just gonna add this here before anyone else does
Additional you you would need to increase the proficiency bonus and limit ability bonuses to max +3
Abilities would require a slight make-over
Strength - affects weight allowance, weapon usage and damage (including ranged) and str-based skill checks
Dexterity - affects to hit, initiative, armour class and dex-based skill checks
Constitution - affects recovery time, system shock and exhaustion checks
Intelligence - affects Int spell level limit, additional proficiencies, languages and int-based skill checks
Wisdom - affects Wis spell level limit, wis-based skill checks, limits no of background flaws
Charisma - affects Cha spell level limit, attunement, cha-based skill checks
Casters characters - spell DCs affected by level, every 3 levels = +1DC, specialists gain +1DC on their chosen school
Martial characters - damage affected by level and proficiencies/expertise/specialisation
Hit Points based on Level + Size
Races would also require a retool.
EDIT: I'm just gonna add this here before anyone else does
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I get what you are saying, but I don't know that there isn't a little rose-coloring going on here. While much of what you said is true, stats had quite an impact on 1e...
Magic-Users (take that "Wizards"!) DID rely on their INT to get higher level spells. It also added to their chance to learn spells and their XP modifiers. Same for WIS and Clerics.
Fighter's STR made major impacts on their abilities, and at lower levels were just as vital then as they are now. My 18/91 dwarven fighter (that was a good day for character creation!) typically played as a level or two higher just because of the impact of his stat. Not to mention - still on dwarves - the Saving Throw modifiers were based on CON (what was it... +1 / 3.5 CON, IIRC?).
Now I'm not saying that ASI's are good things (though I do like them), but I don't think that the argument that 5e is more state dominant than 1e is necessarily entirely accurate.
Interestingly, though, the other day I random rolled my stats for a 5e character for the first time and ended up with an 18 and 16 (20 and 18 when modified by [mountain dwarf] race), so I might could get back onboard with random chargen!
DISCLAIMER: I love Paladins, so Lowkey13 may not want to listen to me anyway.
Magic-Users (take that "Wizards"!) DID rely on their INT to get higher level spells. It also added to their chance to learn spells and their XP modifiers. Same for WIS and Clerics.
Fighter's STR made major impacts on their abilities, and at lower levels were just as vital then as they are now. My 18/91 dwarven fighter (that was a good day for character creation!) typically played as a level or two higher just because of the impact of his stat. Not to mention - still on dwarves - the Saving Throw modifiers were based on CON (what was it... +1 / 3.5 CON, IIRC?).
Now I'm not saying that ASI's are good things (though I do like them), but I don't think that the argument that 5e is more state dominant than 1e is necessarily entirely accurate.
Interestingly, though, the other day I random rolled my stats for a 5e character for the first time and ended up with an 18 and 16 (20 and 18 when modified by [mountain dwarf] race), so I might could get back onboard with random chargen!
DISCLAIMER: I love Paladins, so Lowkey13 may not want to listen to me anyway.
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Guest 6801328
Guest
100% agree.
I'll give you one more reason:
- ASIs are so powerful that it's too much of a sacrifice if you want fun/interesting/colorful feats. Which means only level 12+ characters get the fun feats, and most games never reach those levels. And/or you have to play variant humans (which is how I resolve it.)
It should be the other way around: you should get Feats below level 10, and once you're 11-20 you can start getting godlike stats.
Mike Mearls, Jeremy Crawford...are you listening? Think hard about this for 6e. If I could only have ONE change in 6e it would be ASIs.
I'll give you one more reason:
- ASIs are so powerful that it's too much of a sacrifice if you want fun/interesting/colorful feats. Which means only level 12+ characters get the fun feats, and most games never reach those levels. And/or you have to play variant humans (which is how I resolve it.)
It should be the other way around: you should get Feats below level 10, and once you're 11-20 you can start getting godlike stats.
Mike Mearls, Jeremy Crawford...are you listening? Think hard about this for 6e. If I could only have ONE change in 6e it would be ASIs.
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