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5E The Scout Rogue - how did it work out?

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
When the scout rogue came out, there seemed to be general agreement that this was a good subclass, and a very decent replacement to the ranger. Now I think that the rogue base class is so robust almost any subclass will work - heck you could play a rogue with no subclass and still be fine.

But beyond this generic "B" consensus, I haven't seen a lot of discussions. I'm wondering - so who tried it? How was it? Play experience is important!
 

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On another note, how smooth is the transition between rogue and scout at level three? I've always banned the scout sub-class because I worry the transformation is too jarring. On the other hand, I'd really like to be able to offer it to my players in the new world I'm creating.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
On another note, how smooth is the transition between rogue and scout at level three? I've always banned the scout sub-class because I worry the transformation is too jarring. On the other hand, I'd really like to be able to offer it to my players in the new world I'm creating.
Level 1-2 in 5e are... training wheels. Nothing wrong in starting at level 3 if everyone knows the rules. I perfectly know what you mean though, and it's a problem with several classes. Eldritch knight, I'm looking at you....
 

On another note, how smooth is the transition between rogue and scout at level three? I've always banned the scout sub-class because I worry the transformation is too jarring. On the other hand, I'd really like to be able to offer it to my players in the new world I'm creating.
Levels 2 and 3 are usually hashed out in a single session.

Apprentice levels really.
 

Level 1-2 in 5e are... training wheels. Nothing wrong in starting at level 3 if everyone knows the rules. I perfectly know what you mean though, and it's a problem with several classes. Eldritch knight, I'm looking at you....
Eldritch Knight needs a level 1 Fighting Style. I recommend "Elven Chain Armor" = at-will Mage Armor, plus a finesse longsword. Additionally, this Elven Chain fighting style can grant an option to swap the heavy armor proficiency in exchange for a cantrip. Thus, the character can feel like an Eldritch Knight from level 1.



Is it possible to do something similar for the Scout? Give the level 1 Rogue some kind of wilderness option?
 

I enjoy levels 1 and 2 considerably. They're the time when adventurers earn their right to call themselves heroes, when mundane threats can still terrify and tear them limb from limb. I don't see them as apprentice levels. Apprentice sounds to safe and cuddly. I see them more as a rite of passage: earn your sub-class or die trying.

On another note, I've modified the XP tables so that each level lasts 4-5 sessions. When a character dies, the new character comes in at level 1 (though quickly rises in level)

As for the eldritch knight, I've never been bothered by the transition. Usually a character takes Arcana as a skill and has a decent Int, which represents previous magical training.
 
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Is it possible to do something similar for the Scout? Give the level 1 Rogue some kind of wilderness option?
I worry most about the survivalist ability:

Survivalist
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature and Survival skills if you don't already have it. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of those proficiencies.​

I feel like it punishes players who take Nature and Survival as skills at first level or suddenly grants them expertise at 3rd.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I enjoy levels 1 and 2 considerably. They're the time when adventurers earn their right to call themselves heroes, when mundane threats can still terrify and tear them limb from limb. I don't seem them as apprentice level. Apprentice sounds to safe and cuddly. I see them more as a rite of passage for each character: earn your sub-class or die trying.

On another note, I've modified the XP tables so that each level lasts 4-5 sessions. When a player dies, the new character comes in at level 1 (though quickly rises in level)

As for the eldritch knight, I've never been bothered by the transition. Usually a character takes Arcana as a skill and has a decent Int, which represents previous magical training.
See to me that stuff can be in your character bio/history... but hey, if you want to play it that way, it's just as valid!
Perhaps for the scout part of those early adventures would have to be in the wood?
 

See to me that stuff can be in your character bio/history... but hey, if you want to play it that way, it's just as valid!
Perhaps for the scout part of those early adventures would have to be in the wood?
Except most of my players don't plan out which sub-class they want to choose until their characters hit 3rd level (as most don't read English very well). I could try asking players who want to play a scout to declare their intention at first level, though. Maybe that would work.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I worry most about the survivalist ability:

Survivalist
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature and Survival skills if you don't already have it. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of those proficiencies.​

I feel like it punishes players who take Nature and Survival as skills at first level or suddenly grants them expertise at 3rd.
I know exactly what you mean. Perhaps have the player be a modified human, and take at level 1 "rangerish" magic. For example, find familar, mending and dancing light would be very fitting for a scout wanna be?
 

I know exactly what you mean. Perhaps have the player be a modified human, and take at level 1 "rangerish" magic. For example, find familar, mending and dancing light would be very fitting for a scout wanna be?
I've gone ahead and just added this to my house rule document:

Scout. The Survivalist ability now reads, “When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature, Perception, and Survival skills if you don't already have it. If you already had proficiency any of those skills, it instead gains expertise, which doubles your proficiency bonus for any check that uses that skill.

Would you consider that a fair trade?
 
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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I've gone ahead and just added this to my house rule document:

Scout. The Survivalist ability now reads, “When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature, Perception, and Survival skills if you don't already have it. If you already had proficiency any of those skills, it instead gains expertise, which doubles your proficiency bonus for any check that uses that skill.

Would you consider that a fair trade?
It's fairer, but less good?
 




On another note, how smooth is the transition between rogue and scout at level three? I've always banned the scout sub-class because I worry the transformation is too jarring. On the other hand, I'd really like to be able to offer it to my players in the new world I'm creating.
That really depends on the players. It maybe that they already some outdoor experience because of their backstory. In our game the player who choose scout was a goliath, so it was part of their upbringing.

Or maybe their experiences at level 1 and 2 lead to them developing those skills.

But it's no different to something like paladin oaths. It's up to the player to sell their subclass choice and make it a believable part of that character's story.
I feel like it punishes players who take Nature and Survival as skills at first level or suddenly grants them expertise at 3rd.
There is already a rule in the PHB that lets you select proficiency in a different skill if you are granted one you already have. It's designed for backgrounds, but it's perfectly reasonable to extend it to skills granted by classes.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
There is already a rule in the PHB that lets you select proficiency in a different skill if you are granted one you already have. It's designed for backgrounds, but it's perfectly reasonable to extend it to skills granted by classes.
Well that's a pretty good fix. They gain expertise in nature and or survival, and gain 1 or 2 other skill. They could be somewhat related, like water vehicle (for canoes) for example.
 
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I worry most about the survivalist ability:

Survivalist
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature and Survival skills if you don't already have it. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of those proficiencies.​

I feel like it punishes players who take Nature and Survival as skills at first level or suddenly grants them expertise at 3rd.
I would ignore every instance of "if you don't already have it", which the character generator in dndbeyond actually does (did the last time I checked) too.
The general rule is that you get a different skill if you already have it.
Some subclasses seem to forget that general rule.
 


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